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Subject: RE: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
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From: "Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)"
To: "Greg Bernstein"
Cc: "ccamp" ,
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Hi Greg,
=20
________________________________
From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20
Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 21.47
To: Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti)
Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...
=09
=09
Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read. Looks like you caught some =
problems with the text. See below for comments.
=09
Giovanni Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20
Hi Greg,
=20
Sorry for the delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a =
while so yes, it's interesting. Before going on specific issue I would =
have some question/clarification regarding the draft itself.=20
=20
=20
* Within Abstract and the following.
You don't talk about Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing =
or understated somewhere?
-->Whoops. We were trying to find a more general term to include both =
ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a completely =
symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to =
have gone with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases. =
Talked with some equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that =
seemed to incorporate both so we made sure the model could deal with =
both sparse and dense potential connectivity. Diego had some terminology =
ideas but lately his e-mails have been bouncing back to me. Any =
suggestions are appreciated, but we are including both ROADM and OXCs.=20
=20
My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and picture =
used later on the draft. At least in my understanding the OXC is a =
general case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a =
matter of terminology.
=20
=20
=20
* Section 3.1 where you state:=20
"A fixed mapping between the=20
GMPLS label space and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] "
Does it implies a sort of network level label space? How relate with =
usual local label significance?
--> This mapping gives a mapping between labels and wavelengths/lambda, =
just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the ITU-T G.707 "S, U, K, L, M =
" identification of SDH time slots to a label format in RFC4606 and =
again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time slot =
identification into a technology specific label format. In RFC3471 for =
lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning attached. =
Every network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in =
a different way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 =
lead and using the ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a =
fixed association between labels and lambdas just like between labels =
and TDM time slots in the SDH/ODU case.
=09
This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In the wavelength =
switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or absence of =
wavelength converters.=20
=20
Ok. Local significance but global semantic (as pointed out by Adrian in =
a previous mail).=20
=20
=20
* Section 3.4 Wavelength Converters=20
"Current or envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : ..."
Could we think to a description/model for wavelength converter that is =
technology agnostic? Simply something like: full conversion capability, =
partial conversion capability with some constrains, and may be others.
--> The difference, between the all optical techniques and the OEO =
based techniques makes that difficult.
=09
=20
=20
* Section 3.4. the following:=20
"4. Wavelength converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction =
based on the modulation format and transmission speed"=20
Not clear to me the type of restriction here when OEO happens... =
probably I'm missing what you mean here.
--> For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter would be =
build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator =
cares about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and =
the symbol rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength =
converter will be fairly independent of these issues (except when we =
look at impairment factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be =
more signal specific than the all optical.=20
=20
ok more clear now, although it would be nice having a general model as =
you marked with TBD.=20
=20
=20
* Section 4.1 when you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics:
"Lightpath connection duration has typically been thought of as=20
approximately three time frames: "=20
and the following you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static.
Why there's a need of this classification? When you us Short/long is =
compared to what?
--> In most of the research literature and in optimization practice =
different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static (or =
psuedo static cases). In MPLS there is minimum interference routing =
optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I =
could apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of =
connections. In the RWA literature there is a similar differentiation. =
Exactly what information could be sent to help PCE differentiate I'm not =
sure. In the case of static, batch optimization we can just use the =
existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an individual =
lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long =
the connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we =
might want to put into optimize it.=20
=20
ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for the moment.
=20
Thanks,
Giovanni
=20
=20
minor typo on your mail below: point (c) rfc4328 (not 4238) right?
--> Yes. The G.709 signaling extensions RFC.
=09
=20
Thanks,
Giovanni
=09
=20
________________________________
From: Greg Bernstein [mailto:gregb@grotto-networking.com]=20
Sent: gioved=EC 27 settembre 2007 1.42
To: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
Subject: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...
=09
=09
Hi folks, I haven't seen too many comments on our draft "Framework =
for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength Switched Optical Networks" ( =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-swit=
ched-01.txt). So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial =
issues that the draft brings up.=20
=09
(a) The draft brings up models for the following WDM network =
elements:
=09
1. WDM links=20
2. Optical transmitters
=09
3. Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20
4. ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20
For items (3) and (4) we are taking the modeling lead rather than =
some other SDO. And for ROADMs, in particular, we going beyond the =
classic ITU-T "fabric" model (M.3100) which has been the mainstay of any =
connection oriented switch (TDM, ATM, MPLS).
=09
(b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but three) different =
computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and PCE protocols:
=09
1. A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20
2. Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a different =
PCE computes the wavelength assignment=20
3. A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is accomplished =
in a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set objects)=20
Do we really need all three models?
=09
(c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section and Optical =
Channels. RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for G.709 (Optical =
Transport Network) control. Weren't we finished with all this optical =
stuff years ago?
=09
I'd like to think the draft answers some of these questions. I also =
think that network element models and the process models are important =
enough to warrant this separate framework document. Your opinions are =
solicited.
=09
Regards
=09
Greg B.
=09
--=20
=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=09
=20
--=20
=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=09
------_=_NextPart_001_01C80428.8A87C582
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Hi Greg,
Hi Giovanni, thanks for the close read. Looks like =
you caught=20
some problems with the text. See below for =
comments.
Giovanni=20
Martinelli (giomarti) wrote:=20
Hi=20
Greg,
Sorry for the=20
delay in replying. I'm working on this topic since a while so yes, =
it's=20
interesting. Before going on specific issue I would have some=20
question/clarification regarding the draft itself. =
* =
Within Abstract=20
and the following.
You =
don't talk about=20
Optical Cross Connects (OXC) is something missing or understated=20
somewhere?
-->Whoops. We were trying to find a more general term to =
include=20
both ROADM (usually a highly asymmetric fabric) and an OXC (a =
completely=20
symmetric fabric, e.g., any ingress to any egress), but we seemed to =
have gone=20
with using the ROADM terminology to include both cases. Talked =
with some=20
equipment makers that planned/make "switches" that seemed to =
incorporate both=20
so we made sure the model could deal with both sparse and dense =
potential=20
connectivity. Diego had some terminology ideas but lately his e-mails =
have=20
been bouncing back to me. Any suggestions are appreciated, but =
we are=20
including both ROADM and OXCs.
My doubt was coming from the ROADM definition in section 2 and =
picture=20
used later on the draft. At least in my understanding the OXC is a =
general=20
case for ROADM (sort of multi-degree ROADM) but ok, it's a matter of=20
terminology.
* Section 3.1=20
where you state:
"A fixed=20
mapping between the
GMPLS label space=20
and these ITU-T WDM grids as proposed in [Otani] "
Does =
it implies a=20
sort of network level label space? How relate with usual local label =
significance?
--> This mapping gives a mapping between labels and=20
wavelengths/lambda, just like in the SONET/SDH case we mapped the =
ITU-T G.707=20
"S, U, K, L, M " identification of SDH time slots to a label format in =
RFC4606=20
and again this was done in RFC4328 to map G.709 digital wrapper time =
slot=20
identification into a technology specific label format. In =
RFC3471 for=20
lambda switching we just get a 32 bit integer with no meaning =
attached. Every=20
network and every node could potentially map labels to lambdas in a =
different=20
way. In [Otani] they are following the RFC4606 and RFC4328 lead and =
using the=20
ITU-T DWDM and CWDM lambda grid standards to give a fixed association =
between=20
labels and lambdas just like between labels and TDM time slots in the =
SDH/ODU=20
case.
This doesn't change the local significance of labels. In =
the=20
wavelength switched optical case that is influenced by the presence or =
absence=20
of wavelength converters.
Ok. Local significance but global semantic (as pointed =
out by=20
Adrian in a previous mail).
* Section 3.4=20
Wavelength Converters
"Current or=20
envisioned contexts for wavelength converters are : =
..."
Could we think to a description/model for =
wavelength=20
converter that is technology agnostic? Simply=20
something like: full conversion capability, partial =
conversion=20
capability with some constrains, and may be=20
others.
--> The difference, between the =
all=20
optical techniques and the OEO based techniques makes that =
difficult.
* Section 3.4.=20
the following:
"4. Wavelength=20
converters that are O-E-O based will have a restriction =
based on the=20
modulation format and transmission speed"
Not =
clear to me the=20
type of restriction here when OEO happens... probably I'm missing =
what you=20
mean here.
--> For example a typical O-E-O based wavelength converter =
would be=20
build around a 3R regenerator with a tunable laser. A 3R regenerator =
cares=20
about the modulation type say NRZ or RZ (and which flavor), and the =
symbol=20
rate since its also doing retiming. An all optical wavelength =
converter will=20
be fairly independent of these issues (except when we look at =
impairment=20
factors). Hence the OEO wavelength is going to be more signal specific =
than=20
the all optical.
ok more clear now, although it would be nice having a =
general=20
model as you marked with TBD.
* =
Section 4.1 when=20
you talk about Lightpath temporal characteristics:
"Lightpath=20
connection duration has typically been thought of as =
approximately=20
three time frames: "
and =
the following=20
you define: dynamics, pseudo-static, static.
Why =
there=92s a need=20
of this classification? When you us Short/long is compared to=20
what?
--> In most of the research literature and in optimization =
practice=20
different techniques are typically used in the dynamic versus static =
(or=20
psuedo static cases). In MPLS there is minimum interference =
routing=20
optimization techniques for the dynamic case. For the static case I =
could=20
apply multi-commodity flow optimization techniques to a batch of=20
connections. In the RWA literature there is a similar=20
differentiation. Exactly what information could be sent to help =
PCE=20
differentiate I'm not sure. In the case of static, batch optimization =
we can=20
just use the existing concurrent optimization hooks in PCE. For an =
individual=20
lightpath request it seemed that it would be helpful to know how long =
the=20
connection would last so we'd know how much computational effort we =
might want=20
to put into optimize it.
ok, clear. I still have doubt about quantifiers but fine for =
the=20
moment.
Thanks,
Giovanni
minor typo on your mail below: point =
(c) rfc4328=20
(not 4238) right?
--> Yes. =
The G.709=20
signaling extensions RFC.
Thanks,
Giovanni
Hi folks, I haven't seen too many =
comments=20
on our draft "Framework for GMPLS and PCE Control of Wavelength =
Switched=20
Optical Networks" ( http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernst=
ein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt).=20
So I figured I'd point out some potentially controversial issues =
that the=20
draft brings up.
(a) The draft brings up models for the =
following=20
WDM network elements:
- WDM links=20
- Optical transmitters
- Wavelength Converters and OEO regenerators=20
- ROADMs, FOADMs, optical splitters and combiners.=20
For items (3) and (4) we are taking =
the=20
modeling lead rather than some other SDO. And for ROADMs, in =
particular, we going beyond the classic ITU-T "fabric" model =
(M.3100)=20
which has been the mainstay of any connection oriented switch =
(TDM, ATM,=20
MPLS).
(b) The draft brings up three (not one, not two, but =
three)=20
different computational models for RWA which can impact GMPLS and =
PCE=20
protocols:
- A single PCE computing both the path and wavelength=20
- Two distinct PCEs, where one computes the path, and a =
different PCE=20
computes the wavelength assignment=20
- A PCE computes the path and wavelength assignment is =
accomplished in=20
a distributed fashion via signaling (e.g., using label set =
objects)=20
Do we really need all three=20
models?
(c) G.709 includes the Optical Multiplex Section =
and=20
Optical Channels. RFC4238 was aimed at GMPLS extensions for=20
G.709 (Optical Transport Network) control. Weren't we =
finished=20
with all this optical stuff years ago?
I'd like to think =
the draft=20
answers some of these questions. I also think that network =
element=20
models and the process models are important enough to warrant this =
separate framework document. Your opinions are=20
solicited.
Regards
Greg B.
--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
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Subject: RE: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
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Thread-Topic: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
Thread-Index: AcgCGPrm079Irid9SsOzH8bH1pbmZQCI4MAw
From: "Diego Caviglia"
To: "Greg Bernstein" ,
"Igor Bryskin"
Cc: "ccamp" ,
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Hi Igor hi Greg,
I think this is a very interesting discussion. =20
=20
IMHO the point Igor raised is on the boundary between network planning =
and circuit provisioning I mean the decision to have a node with/without =
conversion capability is a planning decision, likely dependent by a =
given traffic forecast and a physical topology. Moreover the same =
consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that an LSP =
needs 3R due to optical impairments.
=20
A possible solution to say that loopback are not allowed and thus if an =
LSP for some reason needs a loopback the PCE must return an error. This =
information can be used to improve the wavelength conversion/3R =
capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more =
wavelength converter. The other solution is to allow loopback. =20
=20
Best Regards
Diego
=20
=20
=20
________________________________
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On =
Behalf Of Greg Bernstein
Sent: venerd=EC 28 settembre 2007 23.44
To: Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp; pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical =
Networks...
=20
Very good catch Igor. See in line.
Igor Bryskin wrote:=20
--snip--=20
=20
2. Considering wavelength conversion inevitably brings to the problem of =
looped paths, which is a completely new ball game in path computation, =
and I am surprised that the issue was never mentioned in the draft.
--> How is this different from the "looping" that can occur with a TDM =
multiplexer in a drop and continue mode? Also in these two circuit =
cases (TDM, and optical) do we have the same danger as in the packet =
case where looping traffic can greatly degrade other flows. Was there =
some general looping concerns already published for GMPLS with respect =
to circuits? =20
=20
IB>> There is a profound difference. I am not talking here about =
accidental looping, rather about deliberate looping: if some nodes can =
perform wavelength conversion while others can not, then you will want =
to route the connection to one or several conversion points and after =
that get it back on the main path. In other words you will deliberately =
request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS RSVP-TE to =
signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of work =
for both PCE and RSVP.
--> I thought you were worried about accidental loops. I didn't even =
consider what you are talking about "looping", but would RSVP processing =
get fouled up? It sure looks like a loop at the "node" level.=20
In the ERO the "node" subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could definitely be =
repeated, but with a different "Label ERO" subobject appended. This is =
definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM case. =
I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. =
Thanks!
=20
Cheers,=20
Igor
=20
________________________________
--snip--
--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
=20
------_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88
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Hi Igor hi =
Greg,
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I think this is a
very interesting discussion. =A0
IMHO the point Igor raised is on =
the
boundary between network planning and circuit provisioning I mean the =
decision to
have a node with/without conversion capability is a planning decision, =
likely
dependent by a given traffic forecast and a physical topology. =
=A0Moreover the
same consideration applies for 3R capabilities I mean is possible that =
an LSP
needs 3R due to optical impairments.
A possible solution to say that =
loopback
are not allowed and thus if an LSP for some reason needs a loopback the =
PCE must
return an error. =A0This information can be used to improve the =
wavelength conversion/3R
capability of the network e.g. planning the deployment of more =
wavelength converter.=A0
The other solution is to allow loopback.=A0 =
Best =
Regards
Diego
=A0=A0
From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org =
[mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Bernstein
Sent: venerd=EC 28 =
settembre 2007
23.44
To: Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp; =
pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some =
key issues
with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
Very good catch Igor. See in line.
Igor Bryskin wrote:
--snip-- =
2. Considering wavelength =
conversion
inevitably brings to the problem of looped paths, which is a completely =
new ball
game in path computation, and I am surprised that the issue was never =
mentioned
in the draft.
--> How is this different from the
"looping" that can occur with a TDM multiplexer in a drop and
continue mode? Also in these two circuit cases (TDM, and optical) =
do we
have the same danger as in the packet case where looping traffic can =
greatly
degrade other flows. Was there some general looping concerns =
already
published for GMPLS with respect to circuits? =
IB>> There is a profound =
difference.
I am not talking here about accidental looping, rather about deliberate
looping: if some nodes can perform wavelength conversion while others =
can not,
then you will want to route the connection to one or several conversion =
points
and after that get it back on the main path. In other words you will
deliberately request, say, a PCE to produce looped path, and then GMPLS =
RSVP-TE
to signal looped path, which is completely out of normal paradigm of =
work for
both PCE and RSVP.
--> I thought you were worried about =
accidental
loops. I didn't even consider what you are talking about
"looping", but would RSVP processing get fouled up? It sure =
looks
like a loop at the "node" level.
In the ERO the "node" subobject (IP4, IP6, AS) could =
definitely be
repeated, but with a different "Label ERO" subobject appended. =
This
is definitely something somebody would not to in the MPLS or TDM =
case.
I'll be sure to add it as an important difference in the next revision. =
Thanks!
Cheers, =
Igor=
--snip--
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) =
573-2237
------_=_NextPart_001_01C8043D.F00BEB88--
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From t_conklinmm@webtv.net Mon Oct 01 13:48:16 2007
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To: ccamp-archive@ietf.org
Subject: By Rolex for 250$ or less 342
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Mon Oct 01 15:20:29 2007
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To: "Adrian Farrel" ,
"Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org
cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk" ,
yakov@juniper.net
Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
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From: Yakov Rekhter
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Deborah and Adrian,
On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
in the latest version.
Yakov.
From Ranveig@holisticas.com Mon Oct 01 17:42:53 2007
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To:
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Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 23:42:53 +0200
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert. CWTE just announced trading on the OTC. CWTE has the =
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structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news is realesed. CWTE has a =
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industry. Keep an eye for news to hit the market and create a frenzy in =
this stock. When investors find out who's using it, the stock could
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert. CWTE just announced trading on =
the OTC. C
WTE has the potential to return 5 times your money with this tight =
capital structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news =
is=20
realesed. CWTE has a womens line of ageless cosmetics that is =
overwhelming the celebrity
industry. Keep an eye for news to hit the =
market and=20
create a frenzy in this stock. When investors find out who's using it, =
the=20
stock could
go well beyond our target.
ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for =
CWTE!
shuway
shinasah
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sharpbot
sheikhs
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From Aarish-francisco@hartmann-edv.de Mon Oct 01 18:59:28 2007
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert. CWTE just announced trading on the OTC. CWTE has the =
potential to return 5 times your money with this tight capital =
structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news is realesed. CWTE has a =
womens line of ageless cosmetics that is overwhelming the celebrity
industry. Keep an eye for news to hit the market and create a frenzy in =
this stock. When investors find out who's using it, the stock could
go well beyond our target.
ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for CWTE!
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert. CWTE just announced trading on =
the OTC. C
WTE has the potential to return 5 times your money with this tight =
capital structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news =
is=20
realesed. CWTE has a womens line of ageless cosmetics that is =
overwhelming the celebrity
industry. Keep an eye for news to hit the =
market and=20
create a frenzy in this stock. When investors find out who's using it, =
the=20
stock could
go well beyond our target.
ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for =
CWTE!
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From Donatas_Ezebube@hartmann-edv.de Mon Oct 01 19:03:49 2007
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From: "Donatas Ezebube"
To:
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert. CWTE just announced trading on the OTC. CWTE has the =
potential to return 5 times your money with this tight capital =
structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news is realesed. CWTE has a =
womens line of ageless cosmetics that is overwhelming the celebrity
industry. Keep an eye for news to hit the market and create a frenzy in =
this stock. When investors find out who's using it, the stock could
go well beyond our target.
ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for CWTE!
bsrennek
buchsbau
budsmann
burchtvr
busshou
bristen
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CWTE: C'Watre International, Inc
Trade Alert. CWTE just announced trading on =
the OTC. C
WTE has the potential to return 5 times your money with this tight =
capital structure.
This means the stock can see $1.50 when news =
is=20
realesed. CWTE has a womens line of ageless cosmetics that is =
overwhelming the celebrity
industry. Keep an eye for news to hit the =
market and=20
create a frenzy in this stock. When investors find out who's using it, =
the=20
stock could
go well beyond our target.
ccamp-archive, contact your broker NOW for =
CWTE!
bsrennek
buchsbau
budsmann
burchtvr
busshou
bristen
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C80498.7DB78B60--
From luarocky@americanartclassics.com Tue Oct 02 00:41:20 2007
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From:
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Subject: The time is now
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:41:13 +0800
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Shares Prices For FRLE Ride Up And Down As Brokers Fight To Grab Shares
Fearless International Inc.
FRLE
$0.20
FRLE was the focus of a huge share grab as money makers pushed share
prices down for bigger returns. Don't take your eye off this for the
next few days. We expect even more "heavy trading" tomorrow. You only
get a few deals like this in a year, move now and get on FRLE.
From k_maviary@attachmate.com Tue Oct 02 00:41:51 2007
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From:
To:
Subject: New designs released
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:41:25 +0800
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Huge Trading Day For FRLE As Brokers Wrestle For Price Grab
FEARLESS INTL INC
F R L E
Current: $0.20
All this media, and all this attention, with all that trading spells
huge investment opportunity. The new release of the "Fearless 44"
designs and recent media coverage has everyone watching this company
trade. This thing is building. Get ahead on this one and grab FRLE
Tuesday morning.
From pczps71zmapq@umusic.com Tue Oct 02 00:55:42 2007
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Message-ID: <4701F257.3040207@alcatel-lucent.fr>
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:25:11 +0200
From: Martin Vigoureux
Organization: ALCATEL-LUCENT - CTO/R&I
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To: Greg Bernstein
CC: Igor Bryskin , ccamp ,
pce@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Pce] Some key issues with Wavelength Switched Optical Networks...
References: <46FAEE2C.5040008@grotto-networking.com> <46FD51B9.9060909@grotto-networking.com>
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Hi Greg,
please see below
best regards,
martin
Greg Bernstein a écrit :
> Hi Igor, see comments below.
>
> Igor Bryskin wrote:
>>
>> Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe the draft is very useful.
>>
> --> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a couple of questions comments:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Section : 4.4. Traffic Grooming: Combining WSON and Higher Layer Network
>>
>> Optimization
>>
>>
>>
>> How the problem of grooming of higher layer network traffic over
>> optical trails is any different from the problem of traffic grooming
>> in TDM (e.g. VC12 over VC4)? I mean this is a general problem of
>> inter-layer relationship. I suggest moving all higher layer network
>> considerations out of scope of the draft and focusing on specifics of
>> the OCh layer.
>>
> --> Some of my co-authors agree with you on moving this section out.
> The reason that I put it in was that the optical "Traffic Grooming"
> problem has received a fair amount of attention in the research and
> general technical literature and is also a driver for the use of ROADMs
> (optical bypass). I guess in general we've got the following
> inter-related problems: (a) virtual network topology design, (b) lower
> layer connection routing, (c) higher layer flow routing. In our case (b)
> is the RWA problem, which is fairly difficult in its own right. I guess
> I should look closely at the MLN/MRN work and see if a specific example
> that includes RWA is mentioned. If so then I'd feel fine removing this
> section from the document.
Optical considerations are not explicitly covered in MRN/MLN documents
anymore, but we still talk a lot about virtual topologies in
multi-layer/region contexts.
Optical considerations were covered at the very beginning of these
documents, at the time they were called HPN (Hybrid Photonic Networks).
http://www.tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vigoureux-ccamp-gmpls-architecture-hpn-00
From NalinHowarth@thefoxes.co.uk Tue Oct 02 04:50:54 2007
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 02 11:49:21 2007
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:36:40 +0200
From: Jeroen van der Ham
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Subject: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length
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Hello,
The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following:
> The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets
> (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero). The
> TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the
> length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three,
> but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets). Nested TLVs
> are also 32-bit aligned. For example, a one-byte value would have
> the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added
> to the end of the value portion of the TLV. Unrecognized types are
> ignored.
To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs,
and their impact on the length of the upper TLV.
The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the
length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length
of the (enclosing) TLV?
I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
problems.
I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be
worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on
this issue.
Jeroen.
From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 02 12:22:26 2007
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel"
From: "Adrian Farrel"
To: "Jeroen van der Ham" ,
References: <47026588.7000002@science.uva.nl>
Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length
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Hi Jeroen,
> The current text defining the length of TLVs is the following:
>
>> The Length field defines the length of the value portion in octets
>> (thus a TLV with no value portion would have a length of zero). The
>> TLV is padded to four-octet alignment; padding is not included in the
>> length field (so a three octet value would have a length of three,
>> but the total size of the TLV would be eight octets). Nested TLVs
>> are also 32-bit aligned. For example, a one-byte value would have
>> the length field set to 1, and three octets of padding would be added
>> to the end of the value portion of the TLV. Unrecognized types are
>> ignored.
I guess you are quoting from RFC4970 that repeats and adds to the tex in
RFC3630?
> To me this seems very unclear about the handling of lengths of subTLVs,
> and their impact on the length of the upper TLV.
Sub-TLVs form part of the V of the parent TLV.
> The padding after a subTLV should of course not be included in the
> length of that subTLV. But should that padding be included in the length
> of the (enclosing) TLV?
Hah! Nice question.
Consider that the L field has two purposes.
1. To define the actual length of the V field
2. To allow a parser to step over the whole TLV without decoding it
In order to perform the second, the operation on a TLV with multiple
sub-TLVs it is essential that the L of the parent TLV includes all of the
padding implicit in the sub-TLVs.
> I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
> length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
> the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
> problems.
Exactly.
> I really couldn't find a definitive answer on this anywhere, it may be
> worth defining this somewhere, as the current wording is not clear on
> this issue.
If you were quoting text from the OSPF RFCs, you might want to take this to
the OSPF list for confirmation.
Cheers,
Adrian
From jgzvictory@nvda.net Tue Oct 02 12:37:29 2007
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To: "Adrian Farrel"
Cc: "Jeroen van der Ham" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: swallow@cisco.com
Subject: Re: Question about TLV, subTLVs and length
In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:14:22 BST."
<016b01c8050f$52c37a50$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
From: George Swallow
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z=From:=20George=20Swallow=20
|Subject:=20Re=3A=20Question=20about=20TLV,=20subTLVs=20and=20length=20
|Sender:=20
|To:=20=22Adrian=20Farrel=22=20;
bh=9OpJPC1AwABK99eY6VJFIoACqQ98pqywmObWBKIhxXw=;
b=JLGSwlVd4oeHB6+N4POHxNDZZl298lmNdLuAQ4dzRK7OvbaWMPfogowZBVDTdn8CQELv16Km
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> > I would think that the padding for the subTLV should be included in the
> > length of the enclosing TLV. Most of the time it is possible to deduce
> > the length, but if more than 4 bytes of padding are added, you run into
> > problems.
>
> Exactly.
Actually 4 bytes or more (more than 3 bytes).
...George
========================================================================
George Swallow Cisco Systems (978) 936-1398
1414 Massachusetts Avenue
Boxborough, MA 01719
From melissa@tvldyn.com Tue Oct 02 17:07:42 2007
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From: "ario tien-chi"
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Subject: Serious business in a sphere of financial services. No investment reqired.
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From bagnio@aserty.com Tue Oct 02 21:52:17 2007
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From: "Jacques Samuels"
To:
Subject: Press Release Source: Makeup com Limited
Date: Wed, 33 Sep 2007 -02:33:02 -0300
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From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Tue Oct 02 22:43:45 2007
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:33:31 -0400
From: "Peng He"
To: "Mach Chen"
Subject: Re: [OSPF] Fwd: Posting of draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-traffic-09.txt
Cc: "Acee Lindem" , "OSPF List" ,
"Vishwas Manral" ,
"Alan Davey" ,
"CCAMP List"
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Hello Mach,
Just be curious about the following:
>>3. Add the missing part about that the local ASBR SHOULD do a
"proxy" advertisement for the backward of an inter-AS TE link;
What do you mean by "the backward of an inter-AS TE link"? Does that
mean that local ASBR would advertise TE info about the incoming
inter-AS link(s)? Thanks.
Regards,
Peng
From thaoiftd@red4ever.com Tue Oct 02 23:14:01 2007
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Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel"
From: "Adrian Farrel"
To: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" ,
,
"Yakov Rekhter"
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ,
"Don Fedyk" ,
References: <200710011906.l91J6cn44824@magenta.juniper.net>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 10:57:57 +0100
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Hi Yakov,
Could you explain why we would want to adopt
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03)
rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying.
Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is. Your
introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and if that is
a representative application then your scope is identical to the Vasseur
draft.
Thanks,
Adrian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yakov Rekhter"
To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"
;
Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk"
;
Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG
document
> Deborah and Adrian,
>
> On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> in the latest version.
>
> Yakov.
>
>
From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 09:44:23 2007
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Message-ID: <47039874.4080600@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 22:26:12 +0900
From: Kohei Shiomoto
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
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To: Adrian Farrel
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org,
Dimitri Papadimitriou ,
Jean-Louis Le Roux ,
Martin Vigoureux ,
"Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"
Subject: Re: Last call completed on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt
References: <003801c7ffb8$86c94070$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
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Hi Adrian
Thank you for your comments. We will update the ids on reqs and eval for
mln according to ITU's comments and yours. I think that we can start
with the mln solution id now.
Let me respond to your comments in short...
Regarding the renaming the virual TE-link, I would prefer keep it
because RFC4397 already defines it.
Regarding the adaptaion capabilities in place of switching capabilities,
we will clarify it. We will consider the solution in revising the
solution i-d.
Regarding the virtual node model, it might be a solution to represent
the inter-layer connectivity. We will consider it in revising the
solution i-d.
Anyway we will revise the ids.
Thanks,
Kohei
> Hi,
>
> Working group last call completed on
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-reqs-05.txt and
> draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-mln-eval-03.txt with a few comments to consider.
>
> The question was raised about the naming of "virtual TE links." It was
> suggested that "potential" be considered as a more appropriate word,
> partly because of the existing overload of "virtual" in various
> contexts, and partly to tie in with the ASON use of terminology. Could
> the authors please think about this and propose a resolution.
>
> We also received some comments from the ITU-T in their liaison
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/368/. They raise some issues for
> our consideration and the authors need to address these points so that
> they can update the I-D if necessary, and so we can respond to the ITU-T
> as necessary.
>
> Adaptation
> - They suggest that we should include a definition of Adaptation.
> - They suggest advertising the adaptation capability/ies of a link in
> place of the switching capabilities. I am confused by this because I
> would have thought that both pieces of information are needed. It may be
> that the ITU-T are assuming that the technology layer is known a priori.
> It is certainly the case that multiple switching or adaptation
> capabilities should be able to be advertised on a single link, and I
> think this is in the I-Ds, but maybe it needs clarification.
> - Abstract representations of layers and adaptations may be
> advantageous. Although this might be a solution-specific issue, if there
> are requirements they should be drawn out.
>
> Virtual Node
> The ITU-T suggests that the virtual node model might be applied as a
> solution architecture alongside the virtual links. Maybe the
> requirements draft could include some comments on this.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Kohei Shiomoto, Ph.D
NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories
3-9-11 Midori, Musashino, Tokyo 180-8585, Japan
Phone +81 422 59 4402 Fax +81 422 59 3787
From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 11:30:40 2007
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To: "Adrian Farrel"
cc: "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org,
"Yakov Rekhter" ,
"Hamid Ould-Brahim" , "Don Fedyk"
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Oct 2007 10:57:57 BST."
<01bc01c805a5$a2f691b0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
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Adrian,
> Hi Yakov,
>
> Could you explain why we would want to adopt
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision 03)
> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).
For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will
be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.
> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite worrying.
> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is.
As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.
> Your introduction section suggests that *an* application is L1VPN, and
> if that is a representative application then your scope is identical
> to the Vasseur draft.
Yakov.
>
> Thanks,
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yakov Rekhter"
> To: "Adrian Farrel" ; "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"
> ;
> Cc: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" ; "Don Fedyk"
> ;
> Sent: Monday, October 01, 2007 8:06 PM
> Subject: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG
> document
>
>
> > Deborah and Adrian,
> >
> > On behalf of the authors of draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt we
> > would like to propose to accept this draft as a CCAMP WG document.
> > This draft went through IDR review and we incorporated the comments
> > in the latest version.
> >
> > Yakov.
> >
> >
>
>
From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 11:51:25 2007
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From: "Adrian Farrel"
To: "Yakov Rekhter"
Cc:
References: <200710031519.l93FJTn14985@magenta.juniper.net>
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
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Yakov,
>> Could you explain why we would want to adopt
>> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision
>> 03)
>> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
>
> Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).
I ain't proposing nothin'
> For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
> as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will
> be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
> BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.
That is probably a good reason to start with.
>> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite
>> worrying.
>> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is.
>
> As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.
Two questions:
1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its
applicability to L1VPNs?
2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the
Vasseur I-D?
Thanks,
Adrian
From Nejcbarisim@prosper2.com Wed Oct 03 11:57:54 2007
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From: "PAPADIMITRIOU Dimitri"
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adrian =20
- support -=20
-d.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org=20
> [mailto:owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 2:32 PM
> To: ccamp@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Proposed new working group draft
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> Now that the MLN requirements and protocol evaluation have=20
> completed last=20
> call with just a couple of comments, and now that we have=20
> more or less=20
> reached stability with our liaisons to the ITU-T on this=20
> subject, we need to=20
> look for a solutions I-D.
>=20
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-papadimitriou-ccamp-
> gmpls-mrn-extensions-04.txt=20
> has been running for some time and tracking both the=20
> requirements and the=20
> lacunae identified by the evaluation draft. It seems that=20
> this provides a=20
> good basis for the protocol work in CCAMP even if some elements might=20
> change.
>=20
> Please express your support or otherwise for this I-D to=20
> become a WG draft.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Adrian=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
From bneglect@benhamad.com Wed Oct 03 13:01:42 2007
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potential but they can not be generated in real time. Their
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to computers. Computers also "crash" a mysterious phenomenon
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http://shanru.com/
Day ccamp-archive
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$B!&!&!&!E!E!D!D(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,(,!D!D!E!E!&!&!&(B
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From: Greg Bernstein
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To: Adrian Farrel
CC: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, Tomohiro Otani ,
ho-guo@kddilabs.jp, "K. Miyazaki" ,
"Diego Caviglia (GO/MCI)"
Subject: Re: Thoughts on draft-otani-ccamp-gmpls-lambda-labels-00.txt
References: <062f01c80357$b66a0a60$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
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Hi folks, I agree with Adrian that this draft is very valuable for LSC
networks. In addition, it seems that these "global semantic" labels can
be very useful in characterizing optical subsystems and that information
can feed into a PCE performing the routing and wavelength assignment
problem.
For example a single wavelength drop port on a ROADM may be either a
fixed lambda, or a range of lambda. So I'd like to characterize this
port with either one of your globally defined labels or via a range
specified by by two of your nicely defined lambdas.
Note that in ultra high capacity systems multiple optical bands could be
used. In
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bernstein-ccamp-wavelength-switched-01.txt
we estimated that to cover a wide band fiber at the narrowest channel
spacing currently defined (12.5GHz) would require 4800 labels. Hence
with advances in modulation formats and narrower channel spacing
Adrian's suggestion of 16 bits for the "n" field below allows us to
fully characterize a wide band fiber with room to grow.
Regards
Greg B.
Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think this draft is introducing a useful feature for LSC networks by
> allowing lambda labels to have a global semantic.
>
> Although this work is functionally not an absolute requirement (it is
> always possible to map lambdas on a hop-by-hop basis) it is clearly a
> simplification to have a common semantic just as in the TDM label case.
---snip---
> ===
> Section 5.2
> It looks like you have already almost run out of Channel Spacing bits
> in the CS field. Given that technology developments are likely to find
> ways of decreasing the channel spacing, I would suggest allocating
> another bit to the CS field.
> Similarly, n is limited to 511 (if my bit counting is right), and it
> seems to me that the potential for more than 500 lambdas on a fiber is
> not so improbable.
> So, how about...
> 0 1 2 3
> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> |Grid | C.S. |S| Reserved | n |
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> ===
>
--snip--
> The two things you do need in this section are:
> 1. How do I use a new Lambda Label?
> Answer: in all of the places that an existing Generalized
> Label can be used.
> 2. How do I tell when a new Lambda Label is being used
> and when an existing Generalized Label is being used?
> Does this remain a link local issue (as it always has done)
> or do you propose to define a new field value in the
> Generalized label Request or a new C-Type for the
> Generalized Label Object?
> ===
> Section 6.2
> As mentioned before, I think that discussion of advertising lambda
> availability is best removed from this I-D.
> ===
> Section 7
> You might like to consider that the use of a global semantic makes the
> control plane signaling information slightly more vulnerable to
> snooping and external control. I don't think this changes the security
> model, but you should mention the fact.
> ===
> Section 10
> I think [G.694.1] and [G.694.2] are probably normative references.
> ===
>
> Cheers,
> Adrian
>
>
>
--
===================================================
Dr Greg Bernstein, Grotto Networking (510) 573-2237
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To: "Adrian Farrel"
cc: "Yakov Rekhter" , ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Re: accepting draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-02.txt as a CCAMP WG document
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Oct 2007 16:41:52 BST."
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Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:51:55 -0700
From: Yakov Rekhter
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Adrian,
> Yakov,
>
> >> Could you explain why we would want to adopt
> >> draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt (note that your draft is at revision
> >> 03)
> >> rather than draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> >
> > Are you proposing to adopt draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt
> > as a CCAMP WG document ? (simple "yes/no" would suffice).
>
> I ain't proposing nothin'
>
> > For one thing, draft-vasseur-ccamp-ce-ce-te-02.txt is unimplementable,
> > as (quoting from the draft) "The format of the BGP TE attribute will
> > be defined in a further revision of this document." In contrast,
> > draft-fedyk-bgp-te-attribute-03.txt does define the format of the
> > BGP TE attribute, and is sufficient for implementing the attribute.
>
> That is probably a good reason to start with.
>
> >> The scope of your draft seems to be very open-ended which is quite
> >> worrying.
> >> Perhaps you could help by telling us what the application space is.
> >
> > As you said below, *an* application of this draft is L1VPN.
>
> Two questions:
>
> 1. Would you be happy if your I-D contained a statement that limit its
> applicability to L1VPNs?
No, as we are not in the business of predicting the future and therefore
not in the business of limiting future applications of the I-D.
> 2. Could you conceive of using your I-D to meet the requirements of the
> Vasseur I-D?
In order for me to answer this question I'd like to get a clear
description of the requirements of the Vasseur I-D.
Yakov.
From owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org Wed Oct 03 15:15:41 2007
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Message-ID: <0a8001c805f0$22c11bf0$0200a8c0@your029b8cecfe>
Reply-To: "Adrian Farrel"
From: "Adrian Farrel"
To: "Yakov Rekhter"
Cc: "Yakov Rekhter" ,