Subject: Re: "Black Holing": Massive Abuse of Civil Liberties

From: David Borman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 13:32:26 -0500 (CDT)

> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:54:44 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Bob Allisat <[email-masked]>
> Subject: Re: "Black Holing": Massive Abuse of Civil Liberties 
> ...
>  Black holing is an unconstitutional interuption
>  of the right and freedom to communicate. Vixie is

I'll probably regret replying to this, but...

The U.S. constitution does not guarantee either the right or the freedom
to communicate, it provides for the freedom of speech.  From Article
I of the Bill of Rights "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the
freedom of speech or the press; ...".

In the U.S, you can say what you want and you don't have to worry
about being being arrested or put in jail for what you say.  That
is freedom of speech.  It doesn't guarantee you an audience, or even
access to an audience.  It doesn't even guarantee you a place to say
it.  You can say what you want on public property, but if you are
distruptive, you can be arrested for disturbing the peace.  (You can't
be arrested for *what* you say, but you can be arrested for *how* you
say it...)  And you don't have any right to go onto private property
to say what you want.

A bar owner has every right to turn off the TV in the corner or change
the channel when a political speech comes on, the patrons have no
constitutional right to hear that speech on the bar's TV.

The ability to communicate is interrupted and prevented in every way
in every place in the world on a daily basis.  It is interrupted and
prevented for personal 1-to-1 and public 1-to-many communications.
Just because you want to talk to someone or some audience doesn't mean
that you'll be able to succeed in communicating with them, you just
can't be arrested for what you are saying.

			-David Borman, [email-masked]

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:28:29 -0700

At 01:32 PM 9/24/98 -0500, David Borman wrote:
>in every place in the world on a daily basis.

A word from your sponsor...

We interrupt this educational and amusing conversion to observe (as has
been observed already) that while it started out at least sort of related
to the Internet (Bob was complaining about the policies of ISPs), it has
wandered into unrelated territory. A discussion of US constitutional
provisions, for example, doesn't apply in the other countries that the
Internet intersects.

Please continue the discussion in a more appropriate place.

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:28:29 -0700