Subject: Re: Walt Whitman said it better than I can.

From: "Robert (Bob) J. Aiken" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:03:33 -0700

Karl

At 08:59 AM 10/19/98 PDT, Vince Fuller wrote:
>> I wondered how long it would take for people to try to canonize Postel the
>> then use this to drive home flawed, paternalistic, insular and monopolistic
>> policies.
>> 
>> I was not disappointed.
>
>And neither was I, nor I expect the rest of the community, unsurprised by
>the promptness of your crass spew. Congratulations, Karl, you've truely
>outdone yourself in what appearst to be a paranoia-inspired effort to besmirch
>the reputation of a true Internet hero. Of all people, he least deserves this
>sort of posthumous crap. I try to avoid posting on NANOG because of the
>extremely poor signal-to-noise ration, but this time, I can't just sit and
>watch this.

I am a VIW (veteran of Internet wars) since the mid 80's. I have known and
had the pleasure of working with Jon since 1988.  I have long abstained from
joining the word and insult slinging that has gone on for a long time on
many mailing lists,especially those dealing with IANA, except once during
the formation of ISOC. I was raised to speak with action, and do it in a
civilized manner.  There were many times I agreed Jon and sometimes I
disagreed with Jon; however, I never ever doubted Jon's intent on doing the
best for the Internet as a whole and his integrity.  Many of those who have
bashed Jon personally because they did not agree with him should grow up-
act professional if you want to be taken seriously.  I saw all of the "I
knew Jon" messgaes and promised not abstain from the same , but I cold no
longer refrain from asking (as I think did Fred Baker) , in honor of of a
fallen comrade who has given so much to the Internet and its way of life,
that all of us leave the political and personal attacks and paranoia out of
our celebration of Jon's life and what he did- please.

thanks.

bob

back to stealth mode.

resiste any temptation to bash to cannonize Jon. We should  

>
>I did not know Jon well but have grown to respect him, his dedication, and
>his judgement during my 16+ years of involvement with the deployment of
>various pieces of the 'net. I felt honored when Jon first greeted me by name,
>not so many IETF's ago; it made me feel that I had finally "arrived" after
>being a "newbie" in the Internet community for so many years.
>
>Jon Postel did more for the Internet community than virtually all of the
>combined wannabe "experts" that inhabit this foul domain known as the NANOG
>list. The varied accusations of arrogance and monopolistic intent are simple
>lunacy, apparent to anyone who has even taken a cursory glance at all of
>the hard work that Jon put in, all in the name of "doing the right thing".
>
>I hope that wherever Jon is now that he is still able to observe the
>blossoming and growth of the seeds he planted even if he is no longer able
>to actively tend them with such dedication. That crop will nourish and
>outlive not only all of us but will provide essential sustinance for many
>generations of "netizens" yet to come.
>
>Thank you and bless you, Jon.
>
>	--Vince
>
>
>

CISCO SYSTEMS  Bob Aiken, Internet Business Development Manager
  :     :      Advanced Internet Initiatives Division 
.:|:...:|:..  6519 Debold Rd., Sabillasville, Md. 21780,USA  
1-301-271-2919(v),1-800-365-4578(pager), [email-masked]
"Nec Temere, nec Timide" ( "Neither rashly or timidly")

---

From: Karl Denninger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:06:30 -0500

I too am a veteran of these passages since the 80s.

That people want to eulogize is fine.  As soon as they stop the crap that
has populated the lists and the brazen and ill-advised attempts to use this
event for political ends, I shall cease and desist.

In short, do it in appropriate places and leave out the grandstanding.  
This is not the place, nor is NANOG, nor is inet-access.  Yet all three lists 
have been innudated with people doing exactly that, and yet those same
people, including you, have the *balls* to demand that I not speak on 
the same topic - because my point of view does not match yours.

This is the hallmark of a closed, insular, bigoted group of people - the
demand for silence of opinions that do not match your own.

If you want the label, wear the T-shirt.

--
-- 
Karl Denninger ([email-masked]) http://www.mcs.net/~karl
I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give
up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization.

---

From: Karl Denninger <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:06:30 -0500