Subject: 44th IETF venue

From: Dhaval Shah <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 12:49:04 -0800 (PST)

Hi,

I happened to noticed that the 44th IETF is scheduled to be in 
Minnesota in March when Minnesota is usually buried in thick snow!
(I've personally observed that) 

Probably there are good reasons why this is so that I don't know about.
But just wanted to make a suggestion that would'nt it be better to hold 
it in a warmer place?

Thanx,
Dhaval

---

From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:14:00 -0500

Usually that's to save money on hotel group rates.

---

From: Scott Brim <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:14:00 -0500

---

From: Dan Grossman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:32:37 -0500

> Probably there are good reasons why this is so that I don't know about.
Sorry, I just can't resist...

Top 10 List of Reasons to Hold 44th IETF in Minneapolis in March
10.  Fewer 'tourists' in meetings 
9. Watch old 'Mary Tyler Moore' reruns
8. No mosquitos
7. IETF social:  ice skating
6. Easy to convince your boss that this really isn't a junket
5. Questions of honor resolved with snowballs at two paces
4. Official 44th IETF t-shirts made of genuine Polarfleece (tm)
3. Alternative was Thule, Greenland
2. IP tunnels through anything, even thick snow
1. Governor Jesse 'The Body' Ventura to referee contentious WGs

---

From: Dan Grossman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:32:37 -0500

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:04:24 -0500

> But just wanted to make a suggestion that would'nt it be better to hold 

This way, only *dedicated* IETF people show up, and the tourists go
elsewhere. ;)

-- 
				Valdis Kletnieks
				Computer Systems Senior Engineer
				Virginia Tech

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:04:24 -0500

---

From: "Matt Crawford" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:10:20 -0600

They scoffed at Chicago in August, too.

---

From: "Matt Crawford" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:10:20 -0600

---

From: "Perry E. Metzger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:12:26 -0500

> But just wanted to make a suggestion that would'nt it be better to hold 

In my opinion, the worse the weather, the better. Why?

To discourage tourism. People should not be going to an IETF casually
-- they should only be going if they are actively contributing -- and
if holding meetings at the north pole in January will help with that, 
I'm all for it.

The multi-thousand attendee IETFs we are facing these days, with 90%
of the participants in a room of 150 simply making it difficult for
the fifteen people in the room actually involved with the work to see
each other, are not something to encourage. IETFs in pleasant places
(Orlando in December) are not a good thing for this reason.

Perry

---

From: "Perry E. Metzger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 17:12:26 -0500

Perry

---

From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:25:24 -0800

Hi -

> From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, 16 November, 1998 12:49
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: 44th IETF venue
...
> Minnesota in March when Minnesota is usually buried in thick snow!
...

Some consider this to be a feature, rather than a bug.
Too bad it's too late in the season for ice fishing!

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Randy Presuhn           Email: [email-masked] http://www.bmc.com
 Voice: +1 408 616-3100  BMC Software, Inc.           965 Stewart Drive
 Fax:   +1 408 616-3101  Sunnyvale, California 94086  USA
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 In accordance with the BMC Communications Systems Use and Security
 Policy, I explicitly state that although my affiliation with BMC may be
 apparent, implied, or provided, my opinions are not necessarily those
 of BMC Software and that all external representations on behalf of
 BMC must first be cleared with a member of "the top management team."
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: "Randy Presuhn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:25:24 -0800

Hi -

...
...

---

From: Matt Holdrege <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:53:09 -0800

>1. Governor Jesse 'The Body' Ventura to referee contentious WGs

These reasons are much better than the real ones which are boring
logistical ones. But the cold shouldn't matter since we will be inside the
meeting rooms all day, eh?

Anyhow, I don't want to continue this thread for fear of ending up on
Harald's censored list. You can send all your gripes to [email-masked]
where they will be properly treated.

---

From: Matt Holdrege <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:53:09 -0800

---

From: "Philip J. Nesser II" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:00:58 -0800

I would like to make a special note that the Secretariat does pay
attention to our comments.  At the open meeting at the San Jose IETF
(about 3 years ago) I made a comment with regard to the 2000+ people
there, that we should have the IETF in Minnesota during the winter. 
Presto!  

They are listening.  Be careful what you wish for...

- --->  Phil

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dhaval Shah [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 12:49 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: Dhaval Shah
> Subject: 44th IETF venue
> 
> 
> Hi,
>

---

From: "Philip J. Nesser II" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 15:00:58 -0800

- --->  Phil

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:52:43 -0500

> Minnesota in March when Minnesota is usually buried in thick snow!

maybe it was done to mollify the folks who were complaining about
having to go to Orlando in December.

but it probably has more to do with who is willing to host the
meeting, and had available facilities nearby, at a particular time.

Keith

---

From: Keith Moore <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:52:43 -0500

Keith

---

From: "Ralph E. Droms" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:58:56 -0500 (EST)

---

From: "Ralph E. Droms" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 20:58:56 -0500 (EST)

---

From: Bob Stewart <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:07:59 -0500

>They are listening.  Be careful what you wish for...

I wish for Jesse The Mind Ventura to drop by the open plenary.

	Bob

---

From: Bob Stewart <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 23:07:59 -0500

Bob

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:43:50 -0800

>(I've personally observed that) 

I have too, but I have frankly noticed the snow and cold more in January
than in March. I suppose we could have the meeting in January, and for a
social we could go view the St. Paul ice sculptures.

>But just wanted to make a suggestion that would'nt it be better to hold 

remember that it is not particularly an objective to have IETF meetings in
places everyone wants to go...

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:43:50 -0800

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:50:25 -0800

>meeting, and had available facilities nearby, at a particular time.

Matt will tell you that he offered this venue or San Francisco near the
airport, and that I chose this one. Something about having record turnouts
both times we have visited the Bay Area.

---

From: Fred Baker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 19:50:25 -0800

---

From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:50:43 +0800

>social we could go view the St. Paul ice sculptures.

Heck, if THAT's what you are interested in, you can do that near my home in
Malaysia, anytime.  (It's quite chilly in the viewing room, of course, but
they give visitors jackets.  I was tough and didn't take one.  It was a
mistake.)

d/

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dave Crocker                                       Tel: +60 (19) 3299 445
<mailto:[email-masked]>             Post Office Box 296, U.P.M.
                                         Serdang, Selangor 43400 MALAYSIA
Brandenburg Consulting                                          
<http://www.brandenburg.com>                       Tel: +1 (408) 246 8253
Fax: +1(408)273 6464              675 Spruce Dr., Sunnyvale, CA 94086 USA

---

From: Dave Crocker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 14:50:43 +0800

d/