Subject: RE: IETF culture, was Re: IETF meeting scaling: early schedules?

From: "Flanigan, Bill" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:38:31 -0400

Hello Pete,

	I like others wish to say "well done" on your overall reply.
However, I don't feel that your comment below is a particularly healthy one
for BOFs nor for inter-WG "cross pollination," interoperability, and
minimizing duplication of efforts.

Bill 

> ----------
> From: 	Pete Resnick[SMTP:[email-masked]]
> Sent: 	Saturday, July 24, 1999 4:56 PM
> To: 	Shane Kerr
> Cc: 	[email-masked]
> Subject: 	Re: IETF culture, was Re: IETF meeting scaling: early
> schedules?
> 
[snip]

> I think some of the rude responses you are seeing are due to a clash 
> between those people who want to get work done and those people who 
> have come to learn something about the topic, and the failure of each 
> to realize the other is sitting in the room. The latter set of people 
> do not belong at IETF meetings.
> 
[snip]

> pr
> -- 
> Pete Resnick <mailto:[email-masked]>
> Eudora Engineering - QUALCOMM Incorporated
> Ph: (217)337-6377 or (619)651-4478, Fax: (619)651-1102
>

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:27:04 -0400

From: "Flanigan, Bill" <[email-masked]>
   Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:38:31 -0400

Bill,

	When I have time, I do indeed try to visit other WG's, in order
to further the goal of "cross pollination", etc.  This is especially
true since other WG's have in the past complained about folks from the
security area not helping out when they have questions.  The big
difference is that I don't try to learn by asking questions.  I stay in
the background, listen to the conversations, (and using the very
convenient wireless LAN), download the I-D's and read them so I can
understand the conversations going on the room.

	There is (IMO) a big difference between the way seasoned IETF
participants participate when they go visit WG's they don't normally
follow, and people who attend the IETF for the first time, and are
looking for tutorials in the subject.  This is I think really an issue
of expectation setting, since they are probably just as frustated
(because they aren't getting what they came to the IETF to get) as the
people in the working group whose work they are disrupting.

       The other interaction going on is that presenters are being feel
obliged to review the basics at every IETF meeting to cater to the large
number of newbies at each WG, instead of just listing the issues to be
decided, having a high-bandwidth discussion, and then simply settling
the issues more efficiently than on the mailing list (this *is* why we
bother to come to face-to-face meetings three times a year, right?).  

       On the one hand, if they don't review the basics, the WG doesn't
make progress because the newbies ask lots of questions.  On the other
hand, if they do, it punishes those people who did do their homework in
advance, by wasting their time and the time of the working group.

	There are no easy answers here.....

						- Ted

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:27:04 -0400

Bill,

						- Ted