Subject: RE: Can employers forbid you from talking about IETF activities?

From: "Nicolai Schlenzig (DXD)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 16:02:07 +0200

> > The alternative, IMO, is to have IETF participants who are 
> employed by
> > industry companies such as Cisco and Microsoft viewed as official
> > representatives of their companies rather than as 
> individual (and independent)
> > participants.
> 
> would the Cisco rep's opinion count the same as the rep for Bill's
> Bits-to-Go apartment-building-wide ISP?

I don't see why not. If any person can argument for his/she's cause and that is held up to actual facts - A's opinion would be as good as B's opinion. You cannot judge a persons knowledge on a given subject by simply looking at his workplace.

Of course Cisco or whatever large company probably have chosen their rep. with good care and from the first look his opinion would count more. But going into details you might be surprised how little a "general" rep. from a large company can know about certain topics, but still they have to represent it because it's their job (Who says they even have an interest). The little fellow from bits2go... might as well be an expert on topic as he/she could have been working on topic for a decades!

Conclusion: John Doe at Big-O-Mighty-World-wide-Company might not know as much as Jack Doe from Little-and-Extremely-Competent-Company on a given topic.

My 2 cents

-NS

---

From: "Mike Haisley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 09:38:55 -0500

Well...I'm sure Cisco, and Microsoft already have individuals on their staff
who's sole job is to interact with orginizations such as the ietf...  But of
course this wasn't the original topic of this thread...the fact of if
employers can forbid you from talking about ietf activites...of course they
can if it's in your contract.  Its much the same as the situation free
software writers get into with companys who think they own their work...  A
fairly clear letter of authorization/wavier of contract rights should be
pursued before begining work on a project to keep yourself in the clear...

-Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicolai Schlenzig (DXD)" <[email-masked]>
To: "'Scott Bradner'" <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:02 AM
Subject: RE: Can employers forbid you from talking about IETF activities?

> I don't see why not. If any person can argument for his/she's cause and
that is held up to actual facts - A's opinion would be as good as B's
opinion. You cannot judge a persons knowledge on a given subject by simply
looking at his workplace.
>
> Of course Cisco or whatever large company probably have chosen their rep.
with good care and from the first look his opinion would count more. But
going into details you might be surprised how little a "general" rep. from a
large company can know about certain topics, but still they have to
represent it because it's their job (Who says they even have an interest).
The little fellow from bits2go... might as well be an expert on topic as
he/she could have been working on topic for a decades!
>
> Conclusion: John Doe at Big-O-Mighty-World-wide-Company might not know as
much as Jack Doe from Little-and-Extremely-Competent-Company on a given
topic.

---

From: "James K. Murray \(AMSS Mail\)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 11:28:08 -0400

Employers have the inherent option of forbidding any activities NOT related
to your "conditions of employment".  Now, I am new to the IETF announcement
list, and it was my impression, which I now concede was the wrong
impression, that I would be informed via Email of any new Internet Drafts.
While I can appreciate members dilemmas, I think these discussions are
better suited for chat rooms.  If I am on the wrong mailing list, please
advise.

James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Haisley" <[email-masked]>
To: "Nicolai Schlenzig (DXD)" <[email-masked]>; "'Scott
Bradner'" <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Can employers forbid you from talking about IETF activities?

---

From: "Mike Haisley" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:56:07 -0500

This message was send to the ietf Discussion list, if you would like more
information about the specific lists, go to
http://www.ietf.org/maillist.html

-Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "James K. Murray (AMSS Mail)" <[email-masked]>
To: "Mike Haisley" <[email-masked]>; "Nicolai Schlenzig (DXD)"
<[email-masked]>; "'Scott Bradner'" <[email-masked]>;
<[email-masked]>; <[email-masked]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: Can employers forbid you from talking about IETF activities?

> > who's sole job is to interact with orginizations such as the ietf...
But
> of
> > going into details you might be surprised how little a "general" rep.
from
> a

---

From: Dennis Glatting <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 12:05:57 -0700 (PDT)

I once had an employer who made all of their employees sign a contract
stating any technical thing they do while employed by the company is owned
by the company, regardless of whether it was done on the employee's time
and in the employee's home, and the employee isn't allowed to print
articles or speak in forums without the company's permission and, if
memory serves, content review.

Signing the contract was mandatory for continued employment. I refused and
was fired (1996). Since employment is usually "at will," companies, who
generally have the better legal resource position, can pretty much put any
restriction on you that they want. In the case of the IETF, while this
"thing" was going on there was an implicit chill and I silently
disappeared from forums and commitments.

The lesson I learned is to read and negotiate these things up front, and
be prepared to walk away.