Subject: RE: How the IPnG effort was started

From: "Michel Py" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:19:00 -0800

> Kai Henningsen wrote:
> Everytime someone comes up and says "but just look at how ISDN
> failed", I go "Huh?! That's a strange way of spelling "was
> wildly successful"!
> Just because *you* still use stone-age technology ...

Talking about stone-age technology:

- My stone-age phone does not ring busy when I use the data at the same
time.
- My stone-age analog line provides me 24 times more bandwidth than
yours.
- My stone-age phone makes unlimited free local calls.
- My stone-age analog phone line provides me with always-on data, with
no per-minute charges nor call setup.

As a matter of fact, it's a lot better than your modern one.

>> the majority of phones and dial-up still are analog and
>> now ISDN costs _more_ than DSL or cable for low-end data.

> That's just ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is you. Tell me, mister I-know-it-all-for-the-entire
world, how does it cost to get 3mbit always-on service with a static IP
over ISDN lines? Oh, I see. It's not available and you have to bond
_two_ E1s to get this much bandwidth. Right on. You can't even get
128kbit always-on service for the price I pay for my 3mbit.

If you are slow enough to surf the net at 64kb or 128kbit, good for you.
Lots of us have a higher clock and like broadband better than dial-up
speeds.

> Stephen Sprunk wrote:
> But that's the situation in the US...  DSL/Cable are
> significantly cheaper and faster than ISDN, often by a
> factor of 10x or more per kbps.

It's not only in the US. In France for 30 euros/month you get up to
15mbit down/1megabit up and free VOIP with hook to the PSTN on the
regular phone line. In Sweden and Norway they have monthly plans in the
same range as the US, _and_ they don't cap the amount of data
transferred (we're talking about 8megabit with no quota for $40 a month,
great for hardcore file swappers). In South Korea they get good stuff
too I hear.
 
Michel.

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From: "JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 03:30:57 +0100

>128kbit always-on service for the price I pay for my 3mbit.

Is your IP address related in a way to your telephone number (what the ART 
(French FCC) questionnaire would imply as something to consider) ?

> > factor of 10x or more per kbps.

You live in "old Europe" ?

>regular phone line.

My ISP offers it from this week for 14.95 euro/month. They say they will 
mail existing 30 euro users on monday with an offer. Another sells 9 
megabit for that rate. We are just seeing developping the situation we saw 
developping in early 80s, when Europe started to develop sure, stable, 
secure, professionnal services while USA proposed to include services 
(datacoms) in the WTO Kennedy round. I only pray for a joint culture, so 
the users avoid the delays of the previous rounds. IETF could help.

jfc