Subject: Re: IESG Statement on disruptive posting

From: Sam Hartman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:19:07 -0500

I think we disagree significantly on the level of formality needed
here.

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From: Sam Hartman <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:55:17 -0500

>>>>> "Jefsey" == Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]> writes:

    Jefsey> At 03:19 18/02/2006, Sam Hartman wrote:
    >> I think we disagree significantly on the level of formality
    >> needed here.

    Jefsey> yes. But I know future will turn me right
    Jefsey> unfortunately. You cannot fight disruption without
    Jefsey> formality. This is precisely what the IAB said. 

No that's not quite what the IAB said.  The IAB said that we need to
have clear and public documentation of what we're doing.  So people
need to know what the rules are and need to know how to appeal
decisions and how to disagree with rules.

That doesn't require the level of formality you're asking for.

    Jefsey> Do you
    Jefsey> treat computer security informally?

Yes, often.  Formal methods are excellent tools for some problems.
Other times though they are way over kill.

--Sam

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From: Brian E Carpenter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:01:58 +0100

Somebody said:

> ... You cannot 
> fight disruption without formality. 

An IESG statement issued under the authority granted to the
IESG by RFC 2026 is formal.

    Brian Carpenter
    IETF Chair

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From: Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 03:34:45 +0100

At 03:19 18/02/2006, Sam Hartman wrote:
>I think we disagree significantly on the level of formality needed here.

yes. But I know future will turn me right unfortunately. You cannot 
fight disruption without formality. This is precisely what the IAB 
said. Do you treat computer security informally?

Here you treat billions people's security, through stability of the 
IETF. Just remember I am the hacker, and I thnk I know how breakers 
would do. And who some can be. Don't take risks.
jfc

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From: Jefsey Morfin <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 03:34:45 +0100