Subject: Re: Please reject the patent-encumbered proposed standard for TLS authorization

From: MBR <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:06:01 -0500

Dear Noel,

It's unfortunate, but I know of no way to tell the difference between an 
email address that's the main point of contact for an organization and 
an email address that distributes to a huge mailing list.  I sent email 
to [email-masked], naively assuming that the Internet Engineering Task 
Force was established enough to have an office somewhere with a 
secretary who read the emails and forwarded those of interest to the 
appropriate people.

Had I known [email-masked] was an email list, I wouldn't have emailed the 
list.  However, having inadvertently done so, I hope I won't be accused 
of repeat mailbombing for sending this explanation in response to your 
accusation.

If you'd like to suggest a way I can tell whether an email address 
represents a single individual or an email list, I'm all ears.

    Mark Rosenthal

Noel Chiappa wrote:
> Thank you for being part of a crowd of hundreds of people who have mailbombed
> the mailboxes of thousands of IETF 'members' (since we don't have any formal
> membership, just an email list). As a result, we all have such positive
> feeling about the FSF.
>
> 	Noel
>
>

---

From: Marshall Eubanks <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:14:45 -0500

Dear Sir;

On Feb 11, 2009, at 6:06 PM, MBR wrote:

> Dear Noel,
>
> It's unfortunate, but I know of no way to tell the difference  
> between an email address that's the main point of contact for an  
> organization and an email address that distributes to a huge mailing  
> list.  I sent email to [email-masked], naively assuming that the  
> Internet Engineering Task Force was established enough to have an  
> office somewhere with a secretary who read the emails and forwarded  
> those of interest to the appropriate people.
>

Part of the rough democracy of the IETF is that there are basically no  
filters to reaching any person in a position of responsibility. The  
IETF Chair, the IAB Chair, the IESG, the general discussion list,  
Working Group Chairs, all can be easily contacted by anyone who feels  
that they have a need to. (Of course, there are means to filter  
abusive people once they demonstrate their abuse, but there is no  
filter to the newcomer.)

> Had I known [email-masked] was an email list, I wouldn't have emailed  
> the list.  However, having inadvertently done so, I hope I won't be  
> accused of repeat mailbombing for sending this explanation in  
> response to your accusation.
>

In some circles, this is called due diligence. If I was requested to  
send an email about issue blah to
[email-masked], I would try and find at least something about  
foo.org.

This could be done through a search engine, or by going to the  
appropriate web site.

In our case, the first search item I found upon entering [email-masked]  
into a common engine was

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf

which I think is pretty clear.

For the direct approach, right on the home page
there is a link marked "Mailing Lists," which (after the "Note Well"  
click through), takes you to a page

http://www.ietf.org/maillist-new1.html

which has a general description of the mailing lists, and a link to a  
description of the [email-masked] list.

Did you try either course ? If you did, and feel that you were  
confused about appropriate processes, I for one would like to hear  
about it. Many of these web pages are quite old, and there is  
certainly room for improvement.

In my experience the IETF is very welcoming to new people and new  
points of view, but it can be hard to figure out what the pieces do in  
the beginning. If you want to continue, I would recommend that you  
start with the TAO, join
the mailing lists of interest to you, and monitor the discussion for a  
while to get a feel of the local culture.

Regards
Marshall Eubanks

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