Subject: Re: Local Beijing people response - RE: Request for community guidance on issue concerning a future meeting of the IETF

From: Bernard Aboba <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 11:50:34 -0700

Steve Crocker said:

"Are you suggesting the IETF is not mature enough to meet in China?   
After watching this thread for a while, I am beginning to be convinced."

The IETF as an organization is mature enough to meet anywhere. 
However, IETF participation is open, so that attempting to predict 
the behavior of IETF participants is as difficult as predicting 
the behavior of anyone on the planet.

In the past (at a Washington DC meeting), IETF participants were
detained after wandering into a restricted area.  After their
release, the story warranted little more than a chuckle from
those involved, and had no ramifications for the IETF
or its leadership.  

A good test for a potential site is to contemplate the 
ramifications were such an incident to be repeated
at the proposed location. 

IETF participants are responsible for their own words and actions.  
The IETF makes no effort (and has no mechanism) to control their 
conformance to local laws or customs, and the host and IETF cannot
assume any associated risks. 

Further evidence of the potential behavior exhibited by IETF 
participants is available on the appeals page:
http://www.iab.org/appeals/index.html

---

From: David Morris <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 12:15:29 -0700 (PDT)

> the behavior of anyone on the planet.

Combine Dave Crocker's carefully outlined risk analysis with the IETF's 
basic open structure which in recent months has allowed us to be subjected 
to email campaigns with a political agenda. What is to prevent such a 
group with the intent to disrupt the IETF, for what they believe to be the 
greater good, from using remote connectivity provisions to insert 
comments, etc. which would be deemed in violation of the contract without 
even entering China and subjecting themselves to personal risk?

Dave Morris