Subject: xml2rfc 1.34 on Ubuntu

From: Suresh Krishnan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:14:56 -0500

Hi Folks,
   If you are one of the persons who were frustrated waiting for the 
"new" 1.34 version of xml2rfc to get into the Ubuntu disribution 
channels, you can pick it up from the debian ftp registry at

http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/x/xml2rfc/xml2rfc_1.34-1_all.deb

Cheers
Suresh

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From: Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:25:48 -0900

Suresh Krishnan wrote:
> channels, 

I'm unclear on this - why wouldn't they pick it up from resource.org?

Melinda

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From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:40:21 +0100

> I'm unclear on this - why wouldn't they pick it up from resource.org?

apt-get update is so much easier.

apt-get update handles 99.9% of what I need to update, why should the 
last fraction of a percent be different?

Arnt

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From: Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 07:42:51 -0900

> apt-get update is so much easier.

I'm not sold (I totally hate ports systems), but
anyway, I'm specifically confused why somebody who's
been anxious to get their hands on 1.34 wouldn't download
it themselves, or just run it through the website.  My
experience has been that xml2rfc runs right out of the box,
no l337 h^x0r skillz required.

Melinda

---

From: Suresh Krishnan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 11:39:30 -0500

Hi Melinda,

> I'm unclear on this - why wouldn't they pick it up from resource.org?

Using the package manager instead of a tarball

* Overwrites the previous version properly
* Provides uninstall support
* Allows automatic install of dependencies (e.g. tcl, sgml etc.)
* Enables automatic updates (if available)

Cheers
Suresh

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From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:03:19 +0100

Suresh Krishnan wrote:
> ...

In theory.

In practice, the "release" versions have been out-of-date for most of 
the time in the previous years. You usually really need to run the 
preview versions to get the latest required changes (with respect to 
boilerplate).

Best regards, Julian

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From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 11:10:35 -0800

> no l337 h^x0r skillz required.

It is probably true that manually installing xml2rfc is easy in itself - just
download the new file and unzip it a the right place.  On the other hand, I have
2544 different packages installed in my main computer.  Can you imagine how
difficult it would be to 1) track when new versions of this 2544 packages are
available 2) download them and 3) remember where to install them.  And that's
without starting talking about dependencies, signatures, configuration files
updates, security patches and everything else that make the difference between a
crappy system and a working environment.  Doing all of this requires only a
"sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" each morning on the 8 computers
I manage directly.

So from the point of view of one software like xml2rfc, packaging seems
unnecessary.  From a global point of view, it definitively is.

-- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Personal email: [email-masked]
Professional email: [email-masked]
Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org

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From: Melinda Shore <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 10:18:28 -0900

On Feb 4, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote:
> 2544 different packages installed in my main computer.

!!!

Anyway, I don't need a new version until I need a new version,
and that's when I know I need a new version and I download it.
I don't download it if I don't need a new version.  What I'm
reading here is that people are installing and maintaining
stuff they don't need, which I suppose explains the 2544
packages.  I'd certainly never deny people the ability to
easily maintain unused and unnecessary software and we're
headed *way* off-topic, but I was just struck by how odd it
seemed that somebody who needed the new release of xml2rfc
would be frustrated by it not being in the absolutely,
completely, 100% farkakte ports system.

Melinda

---

From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 14:29:37 -0500

>>>>> "Melinda" == Melinda Shore <[email-masked]> writes:
    Melinda> suppose explains the 2544 packages.  I'd certainly never
    Melinda> deny people the ability to easily maintain unused and
    Melinda> unnecessary software and we're headed *way* off-topic, but
    Melinda> I was just struck by how odd it seemed that somebody who
    Melinda> needed the new release of xml2rfc would be frustrated by it
    Melinda> not being in the absolutely, completely, 100% farkakte
    Melinda> ports system.

So, I go my colleagues' desk, and he wants to edit my draft or start a
new one.  He's never used xml2rfc before... he'll need the latest
boilerplate.  Downloading the zip is easy, but betcha there is some tcl
prereq that isn't installed... so the apt-get makes it all simple.

-- 
]       He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life!           |  firewalls  [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON    |net architect[
] [email-masked] http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ |device driver[
   Kyoto Plus: watch the video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzx1ycLXQSE>
	               then sign the petition.

---

From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 10:21:08 +0100

>> 2544 different packages installed in my main computer.

It happens. So you want xterm. That's one package, but it depends on a 
few for the shared libraries and a whole lot for fonts. Xterm can 
display dozens of alphabets, and formerly odd glyps like ☑ → … ≠ are 
actually used these days, even in plain English text, so installing a 
wide selection of fonts by default makes sense. So you want an audio 
player. It can play a dozen audio formats, most of which involve a 
separate package called libfoo or blahplayer. It adds up.

> completely, 100% farkakte ports system.

I think you might change your opinion after using a package manager 
that's approximately 0% verkackt for a while. IMO ubuntu's is the best 
there is at the moment.

(Nice word btw, first time I've seen that in English.)

Arnt

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From: Martin Rex <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 15:26:42 +0100 (MET)

> prereq that isn't installed... so the apt-get makes it all simple.

I would suggest to give NroffEdit (a Java program) a try in such
a situation (which is also listed on http://tools.ietf.org/,
 direct link would be http://aaa-sec.com/nroffedit/)

With NroffEdit you can convert a plain .txt I-D back into editable
nroff-source in little time (it took me ~30 minutes).

-Martin

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From: Julian Reschke <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:41:08 +0100

> prereq that isn't installed... so the apt-get makes it all simple.

Sounds like you want to apt-get tcl, and get the latest xml2rfc 
distribution from xml.resource.org. OK, these are two steps rather than 
one, but that doesn't sound too bad to me.

BR, Julian