Subject: Call for IESG narrative scribe volunteers

From: IETF Chair <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:58:00 -0400

The IESG narrative minutes are posted, whenever available, at
http://www.ietf.org/IESG/iesg-narrative.html.  Currently, John Leslie is
carrying the vast bulk of the load, and Marc Blanchet is providing
backup.  The IESG would like to recruit at least one more scribe.  Other
time commitments are not allowing these volunteers to adequately cover
all of the IESG meetings.  In fact, neither scribe will be able to cover
some of the IESG sessions during IETF 78.

Volunteers should write to [email-masked] by July 19th.  We'll keep
names confidential, unless people choose to volunteer in public.

The general guidelines are:

- at least one scribe attends the regular IESG telechats (11:30 - 14:00
US ET on alternate Thursdays).

- the scribe(s) will record narrative minutes of the discussions, but
they will not take part in the discussions except to ask for
clarifications.

- the narrative minutes will be published after review by the IESG.  The
intent is to publish the narrative minutes within a month of the meeting.

- confidential items (principally personnel discussions) will not be
reported in detail. The scribe will not take part in any sessions from
which liaisons are excluded (e.g., nomination and appeal discussions).

The IESG scribes get a first hand opportunity to observe the IESG and
their decision process.

If we do not receive volunteers, then narrative minutes may have to be
discontinued.  We recognize that this will reduce transparency of the
IESG, but without the people to the work, there is no choice.

  Russ Housley
  On behalf of the IESG

---

From: "Spencer Dawkins" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:04:49 -0500

As a former IESG scribe, I would encourage anyone who is interested in 
understanding the IETF (and especially the IESG) better to volunteer as 
scribes - and there would be little penalty (from my perspective) in having 
several more scribes. When I started, Marshall Eubanks and I shared scribe 
duties and were able to review each other's notes (so neither of us had to 
capture everything). That was nice.

And no one on the current IESG or IAB (because there are a small number of 
joint sessions) speaks nearly as rapidly as EKR did when I was scribing and 
he was on IAB. :D

For Russ's point about transparency ... one does not have to go any further 
back than the recent discussions about the IESG view of NEWTRK/ISDs on the 
IETF discussion list to remember the Bad Old Days when the IESG was a 
complete black hole to most of us - we didn't know what ADs thought, unless 
those thoughts made it into the tracker, and there were a lot of thoughts 
that didn't make it into the tracker.

In this specific case, there is no IESG evaluation record and no IESG 
writeup at all, available from 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-newtrk-repurposing-isd/, 
although the IESG did discuss ISDs at length (so I am told) - and four years 
later, we're guessing at what the IESG concerns were about a major 
deliverable from a chartered IETF working group. Russ is the only remaining 
IESG member from that period, and even Russ can't point to anything that the 
rest of us can look at.

If that sounds like fun, then we don't need narrative minutes, of course. 
But what if it was your draft?

Spencer

p.s. Just as a thought exercise, I looked at the most recent official 
minutes and narrative minutes available from 
http://www.ietf.org/iesg/minutes/2010/, both for 2010-07-01.

As an author, editor, or working group chair, would you rather be looking at

"The document remains under discussion by the IESG in order to resolve 
points raised by Russ Housley.*"

or
  a.. Amy: discusses
  b.. Jari: a disagreement on some of the concerns
  c.. Russ: saw some "good point"; haven't seen changes
  d.. Jari: I'll deal with that... Robert, addresses from both SLAC and 
DHCP, some email discussion, not sure of rules, they seemed to say it can't 
happen
  e.. Robert: I envision DHCPv6 server, expecting clients to get DNS from 
DHCP, could lead to different answers than autoconfigure
  f.. Ralph: a little contrived, don't see it as possible to have that 
conflict, either all hosts on link have SLAC, or none; it is possible for 
some hosts to have both while some have SLAC only, could be two classes of 
devices in the home, one managed by service provider: in that case, service 
provider might want special DNS
  g.. Robert: SIPIT example, is guidance sufficient to ensure that devices 
at least work
  h.. Ralph: only places I've heard that is deployment of special devices 
with additional requirements imposed by service-provider-oriented standards: 
they should list additional requirements
  i.. Jari: some language about priorities, warn people it may not work
  j.. Robert: is it possible to call out ongoing work?
  k.. Ralph: I'll work on wording; Ron, rogue RA
  l.. Ron: isn't this risky
  m.. Ralph: in principle you can always redirect; not a new problem
  n.. Ron: I'll clear, and discuss this elsewhere
  o.. Ralph: maybe we haven't discussed low-cost solutions enough
  p.. Ron: low-cost solutions don't always work, some environments you're 
just exposed
  q.. Sean: security ADs worry about this all the time...
  r.. Russ: Amy, please clear Ron's discuss for him
  s.. Jari: AD-followup
? Because that's the difference between official minutes and narrative 
minutes for draft-ietf-6man-dns-options-bis-05.

---

From: Linda Dunbar <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:08:56 -0500

I will do it. 

Linda Dunbar

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of
Spencer Dawkins
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:05 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Call for IESG narrative scribe volunteers

rest of us can look at.

Spencer

or
  a.. Amy: discusses

> names confidential, unless people choose to volunteer in public. 

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