Subject: Re: Consensus Call: draft-weil-shared-transition-space-request

From: [email-masked] (Noel Chiappa)
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 16:07:47 -0500 (EST)

> From: Nilsson <[email-masked]>

    >> On this basis, it's a case of looking for the least-problematic
    >> solution.

    > Which is v6. 

Yes, beating up on IPv4 has been such a success in getting IPv6 deployed,
hasn't it?

Let's dial the way-back machine back to 1994, when IPv6 was adopted - i.e. 17
years ago. (Pretty shortly we're going to be having IETFers who _weren't even
born yet_ when IPv6 was adopted, but I digress.) To hammer home just how long
ago that was, at that point in time:

- The latest and greatest product of Intel was the 233MHz Pentium II
- The latest and greatest uSoft-ware was _Windows 3.1_
- The WWW had a grand total of about 3K sites

Those old enough in the IETF may remember Marshall Rose's presentation on the
ISO stack, with the mental image of the small furry animal spreadagled across
the front of the giant truck. Trying to kill IPv4, to improve the prospects
for IPv6, is going to be just about as successful.

Maybe the IPv6 aficionados should go spend their time and energy in trying to
make things better for IPv6, instead of trying to 'help' it out by trying to
cripple IPv4 - because so far, IPv6 deployment is an abysmal failure.

17 years? As Ross Perot famously said: "It takes GM seven years to build a
new car. We won the Pacific War in four."

It takes something really special to make GM look like a bunch of hyper-active
geniuses.

<Stomps off.>

	Noel

---

From: Måns Nilsson <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 22:24:38 +0100

> Yes, beating up on IPv4 has been such a success in getting IPv6 deployed,

There is no beating up. v4 is dead, move on. Building a business plan
on anything else today is going to fail. Except in some walled gardens
where address hoarding has taken place. Like $dayjob, which has a /16 v4
for 4K employees and still has v6 in the backbone and transit and several
peers and if not all so at least several end-user networks dual-stacked.

All it took was 

1. Require v6 support (and at least passable feature parity) in
devices. As long as you're doing POS and Ethernet, a no-brainer. 
Any vendor worth considering will be able to deliver. 

2. Require v6 from transit providers and external peers. Completely
painless. Got bucketloads of offers at last transit call for tender. All
v6-enabled.
 
3. Extend the enterprise provisioning system^H^H^HH^W^W^W ugly script
hack that does router configs to do hex math as well. Took all of a week
including adress planning and test deployments.

Bonus: The Other Desktop Operating System With The Large Market Share
gets extremely happy if it has v6 to play with.

> because so far, IPv6 deployment is an abysmal failure.

Not here. 
 
-- 
Måns Nilsson     primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE                             +46 705 989668
I just forgot my whole philosophy of life!!!