Subject: RE: Last Call:<draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>(Allocationof an Associated Channel Code Point for Use byITU-T Ethernetbased OAM) to Informational RFC

From: D'Alessandro Alessandro Gerardo <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 16:11:49 +0100

Dear all,
Wrt draft-betts, I believe it is appropriate to allocate a code point for the referenced specification without any restriction about the possibility to evolve messages/protocols when compatibility is preserved. It is not only unnecessary but it does not help in improving the relationship between the two SDOs.

Best regards,
Alessandro

PS Resent due to malformed subject
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-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: t.petch [mailto:[email-masked]]
Inviato: mercoledì 14 marzo 2012 11:56
A: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon); ext Ross Callon
Cc: [email-masked]
Oggetto: Re: הנדון: RE: Last Call:<draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>(Allocationof an Associated Channel Code Point for Use byITU-T Ethernetbased OAM) to Informational RFC

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)" <[email-masked]>
To: "Andrew G. Malis" <[email-masked]>; "ext Ross Callon"
<[email-masked]>
Cc: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:09 PM
Subject: הנדון: RE: Last
Call:<draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>(Allocationof an Associated Channel Code Point for Use byITU-T Ethernetbased OAM) to Informational RFC

Ross,
i am afraid that you missed the point. There will not be a final version since as written in draft-betts, all  ITU recommendations are subject to revisions, and the code point will also be used for future revisions of the document. New messages/protocols can be defined in future revisions of the recommendation and they will use the same code point that is allocated for the first version.
This is a real issue.
Regards,
Nurit
-----הודעה מקורית-----
מאת: ext Ross Callon
נשלח:  13/03/2012, 19:27
אל: Andrew G. Malis; Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
עותק: [email-masked]
נושא: RE: Last Call:<draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>(Allocationof an Associated Channel Code Point for Use byITU-T Ethernetbased OAM) to Informational RFC I agree that the allocation of a code point should be to a specific version of 8113.1,

<tp>
Why?

I can understand a new code point being required if there is a new and backwards incompatible format for the messages, but if the messages are extended in a forwards compatible manner, adding new TLV for example, or a new format of IF_ID, then why should we burn a new code point?

Would you say that we should have a dozen different port numbers for HTTP to reflect its evolution over time?  If not, why not?

Demanding that the ITU-T come back to us for a new round of negotiation when it is technically unnecessary seems to be placing an unnecessary barrier between the two SDOs.

Tom Petch

and specifically should be to the final version that is approved by the ITU-T (assuming that a final version of 8113.1 will be approved by the ITU-T). This would imply that draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point should contain a normative reference to the final approved version of 8113.1.

Given normal IETF processes, this implies that the final RFC resulting from draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point could be published as soon as the final version of 8113.1 is approved (with the understanding that there will be a small normal delay between "approved" and "published" which gives time for coordination). Given that the final version of 8113.1 might need to reference the RFC resulting from draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point, a bit of cooperation might be needed between editorial staff at the ITU and RFC editorial staff, but I don't see why this should be a problem (I am sure that they all have access to email).

Ross

-----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Andrew G. Malis
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 6:54 PM
To: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>(Allocationof
an Associated Channel Code Point for Use byITU-T Ethernetbased OAM) to Informational RFC

I would like to support Nurit's comments below. In particular, in the past the ITU-T has expanded upon or changed the usage of IETF codepoint allocations, in some cases incompatibly with its original usage or definition. In the future, all codepoint allocations to the ITU-T should be tied to one specific, dated revision of their specification only. This is similar to the ITU-T's own processes, such as section 2.2.1 of Rec. A.5, which requires a version number and/or date for referenced outside documents in ITU-T recommendations.

Cheers,
Andy

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod
HaSharon) <[email-masked]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I cannot support the publication of the document in its current version.
>
>
>
> I have the following concerns:
>
>
>
> .        It is indicated that the channel is intended to be used to carry
> Ethernet based OAM messages. It is not clear why there is a need for ACH.
> PWs can be used to transmit Ethernet OAM.
>
> If the intention is to use the channel for OAM messages for operating
> MPLS-TP based networks, the IETF *already* defined a solution for
> MPLS-TP OAM and I expect to see first a technical *justification* why
> a second solution is needed. In addition, I would expect to see
> *references to the
> arguments* raised in draft-sprecher-mpls-tp-oam-considerations.
>
>
>
> .        It is not clear what the maturity status of G.8113.1 is. It seems
> that the document was not approved by SG15 and the discussion was
> deferred to WTSA. This indicates that there is *no consensus* for the
> approval of G.8113.1. A code point should not be allocated before a
> consensus/decision is reached in the ITU-T and before the document is
> mature and approved. I do not think it is appropriate to allocate a
> code point and try to force a resolution in the ITU-T.
>
>
>
> .        I find a contradiction in the draft. In one place it is mentioned:
> "These Ethernet based OAM messages and procedures, address the OAM
> functional requirements defined in [RFC5860]. Other message types
> should not be carried behind this code point." In another place it is
> mentioned: "all ITU-T Recommendations are subject to revision.
> Therefore, the code point allocated by this document may be used for future versions of [G.8113.1].".
> The last statement opens the door for the definition of additional
> messages in G.8113.1 in the following versions, for example, for APS
> (supporting linear or ring protection mechanisms) and by this creates
> two solutions for other mechanisms as well.
>
>
>
> The use of the code point can go much beyond its original purpose and
> it will hide other messages....a code point should not be allocated at
> this point at all, but specifically not for unknown usage that may be
> defined in future versions of G.8113.1.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nurit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>> From: [email-masked] [mailto:ietf-announce-
>
>> [email-masked]] On Behalf Of The IESG
>
>> Sent: 22 February 2012 15:13
>
>> To: IETF-Announce
>
>> Subject: Last Call: <draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>
>
> (Allocation of
>
> an
>
>> Associated Channel Code Point for Use by ITU-T Ethernet based OAM) to
>
>> Informational RFC
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to
>
> consider
>
>> the following document:
>
>> - 'Allocation of an Associated Channel Code Point for Use by ITU-T
>
>>    Ethernet based OAM'
>
>>   <draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt> as an Informational RFC
>
>>
>
>> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
>
>> final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to
>> the
>
>> [email-masked] mailing lists by 2012-03-21. Exceptionally, comments
>> may
>
> be
>
>> sent to [email-masked] instead. In either case, please retain the
>
>> beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>
>>
>
>> Abstract
>
>>
>
>>    This document assigns an Associated Channel Type code point for
>
>>    carrying Ethernet based Operations, Administration, and Management
>
>>    messages in the MPLS Generic Associated Channel (G-ACh).
>
>>
>
>> The file can be obtained via
>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point/
>
>>
>
>> IESG discussion can be tracked via
>
>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point/
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
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>
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
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