Subject: Re: Predictable Internet Time

From: Nico Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:54:15 -0500

On Wed, Jan 04, 2017 at 12:32:23AM +0100, Philip Homburg wrote:
> Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an IETF equivalent for operating
> systems, so it will be completely random whether anything will happen in
> this area or not.

There's no reason that the IETF could not a) define an abstract time API
that includes time "types" ({UTC, TAI, local, smeared, whatever} x
{various possible representations}), conversions between them, and
behaviors, then b) define bindings of this API for various programming
languages.  The Open Group, to give one example, could take our advice
on this matter -- or not; they'd not be obligated, natch.

The IETF has done this for other networking technologies (sockets
extensions for IPv6, GSS-API, ...).

Because our protocols must deal with time, this is very much in our
bailiwick.  It also fits in other SDOs, but as none have published such
a spec, we might lead.

Any RFC on smeared time surely would at least define a subset of this
abstract API for conversions to/from UTC.  We might as well go all the
way.

Nico
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From: Nico Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:56:50 -0500

On Wed, Jan 04, 2017 at 09:49:35AM +0100, Harald Alvestrand wrote:
> FWIW, the W3C has switched to defining time inside a Web page in two
> segments:
> - Page load time, which is UTC-derived (POSIX time extended to
> milliseconds), and can jump when the system clock is reset
> - Events related to the page load time, which has floating-point
> representation, and is guaranteed to be monotonic.

But aren't these relative times (intervals)?  As long as they are short
enough, distinctions between UTC, TAI, local, and smeared time will make
little difference most of the time.  (Naturally, using local time might
cause a page load time to appear to be negative, or over an hour, around
daylight savings switch overs, or if one is moving across timezones,
thus "most of the time".)

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From: Harald Alvestrand <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2017 23:35:25 +0200

> thus "most of the time".)
The first is an absolute time. The second is relative.

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