Subject: IESG Telechats -- WebEx failure

From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 10:10:37 -0400

I discovered today that cisco no longer supports my only-slightly-ancient
Mac OSX:

"Cisco WebEx no longer supports your operating system. Upgrade your computer
to a supported operating system and try again."

   It seems rather likely that I'm not the only one affected. :^(

   Granted, I _could_ phone in; but that would leave me clueless as to
who is speaking -- thus the option is essentially useless.

.................

   Hopefully, the new narrative-scribing system will work...

--
John Leslie <[email-masked]> (Prior Narrative Scribe)

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From: Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 09:45:55 -0700

If you download a modern browser (Chrome, Firefox, and I imagine there's
some way to get a new Safari) you should be able to join via browser
(WebRTC).

-Ekr

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 7:10 AM, John Leslie <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ..................

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From: John Leslie <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 13:34:53 -0400

Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]> wrote:
> some way to get a new Safari) you should be able to join via browser (WebRTC).

   I have the latest Chrome, Firefox, and Safari, so far as I have can tell,
that will run on my
]
]  OS X
] Version 10.8.5
]...
] Processor 1.8 GHz Intel Core i5
] Mmory 4 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

   As I said, this is somewhat ancient... However, IMHO, it is no more ancient
than what the majority of third-world IETF participants can afford.

   I'm not entirely sure what "join via browser (WebRTC)" includes. Having
spent the previous hour preparing my Narrative Scribe Template, I had run
out of time to explore the possibilities. Unquestionably it would be good to
have an IETF page outlining the alternatives which can show who is speaking
in real-time.

   Obviously, cisco is entitled to update their free-of-charge software on
whatever schedule is convenient to them -- but the IETF should try to use
tools which don't break without better warning.

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From: Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 10:54:48 -0700

> than what the majority of third-world IETF participants can afford.

I don't know what people can afford, but given that Mountain Lion has been
out of
Apple support for over two years, I don't really think there's much of an
expectation
that people will continue to support software for it.

>    I'm not entirely sure what "join via browser (WebRTC)" includes.

It includes a full interface, including slide sharing and speaker
identification.

> tools which don't break without better warning.

See above.

-Ekr

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From: Bob Hinden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 11:03:13 -0700

Ekr,

I run Sierra (10.12) and regularly have problems with Webex crashing on startup.  I use the latest versions of Safari and Crome.  I don’t think this problem is limited to old versions of the OS.  I do fall back to the web version, but it’s UI is lacking IMHO.

It also doesn’t support IPv6.

Bob

> On May 10, 2018, at 10:54 AM, Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what people can afford, but given that Mountain Lion has been out of
> Apple support for over two years, I don't really think there's much of an expectation
> It includes a full interface, including slide sharing and speaker identification.
> 
>

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From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 14:49:26 -0400

> than what the majority of third-world IETF participants can afford.

So, just to be clear, are you joining using the desktop application (JAVA),
or via the browser (webrtc).  There is a host (literally) of things you can
not do from the webrtc interface.
(Seeing who is talking is one of the things you can do)
Join-by-browser works for me with chrome and firefox on Devuan/Debian Linux.
I'm not as diligent about having this week's version, but I'm usually no
further behind than a month.   

    > tools which don't break without better warning.

Actually, Cisco's system is not free-of-charge.
It was donated to the IETF for awhile with no SLA, but apparently we now have
an SLA (we are real customer), and so really we have the right to complain.

-- 
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [ 
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        | network architect  [ 
]     [email-masked]  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [

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From: Michael Richardson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 14:51:17 -0400

Bob Hinden <[email-masked]> wrote:
    > I run Sierra (10.12) and regularly have problems with Webex crashing on
    > startup.

I think you mean, the JAVA Web Start version?

    > I use the latest versions of Safari and Crome.  I don’t think
    > this problem is limited to old versions of the OS.  I do fall back to
    > the web version, but it’s UI is lacking IMHO.

The version of Safari and Chrome only applies to the web version, which you
say works.

The version of JAVA that you have would affect your crashing.

    > It also doesn’t support IPv6.

Yes, that also annoys me.

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From: Eric Rescorla <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 20:52:40 -0700

I

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Bob Hinden <[email-masked]> wrote:

> startup. I use the latest versions of Safari and Crome.  I don’t think this
> problem is limited to old versions of the OS.

I have no experience with the WebEx client. I use the WebRTC version in the
browser.

I do fall back to the web version, but it’s UI is lacking IMHO.

I agree it's not great looking, but i've been reasonably happy using it.
YMMV, I guess.

-Ekr