Subject: CONSENSUS CALL - PKINIT "SHOULD group 16"

From: Jeffrey Hutzelman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:27:29 -0500

This is part of ticket #530.

As of -22, DH group 2 was REQUIRED and group 14 was RECOMMENDED.
This was the result of a consensus arrived at during and after IETF60.

Larry has proposed also making group 16 RECOMMENDED.
The text for this appeared in pkinit-23 and will be present in pkinit-24.

In order to send PKINIT to the IESG with this text, it needs to be the 
consensus of the working group.  I would like to comments supporting or 
opposing this proposal, even from people who have already commented on it 
previously.

Thanks...

-- Jeff

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From: Sam Hartman <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:41:05 -0500

>>>>> "Jeffrey" == Jeffrey Hutzelman <[email-masked]> writes:
    Jeffrey> This is part of ticket #530.  As of -22, DH group 2 was
    Jeffrey> REQUIRED and group 14 was RECOMMENDED.  This was the
    Jeffrey> result of a consensus arrived at during and after IETF60.
    Jeffrey> Larry has proposed also making group 16 RECOMMENDED.  The
    Jeffrey> text for this appeared in pkinit-23 and will be present
    Jeffrey> in pkinit-24.

Speaking as an AD, pkinit must have a DH group strong enough to meet
the requirements of BCP 86 for the symmetric keys expected to be used
with pkinit.  If AES-128 is not mandated by pkinit it must have DH
groups strong enough for AES-256.

Speaking as an individual, I support this change.

--Sam

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From: Nicolas Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 00:07:36 -0600

> groups strong enough for AES-256.

Can PKINIT mandate AES-128 when clarifications doesn't?

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From: Sam Hartman <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 11:24:45 -0500

>>>>> "Nicolas" == Nicolas Williams <[email-masked]> writes:

    Nicolas> On Mon, Feb 07, 2005 at 10:41:05PM -0500, Sam Hartman
    Nicolas> wrote:
    >> Speaking as an AD, pkinit must have a DH group strong enough to
    >> meet the requirements of BCP 86 for the symmetric keys expected
    >> to be used with pkinit.  If AES-128 is not mandated by pkinit
    >> it must have DH groups strong enough for AES-256.

    Nicolas> Can PKINIT mandate AES-128 when clarifications doesn't?

Sure.  "If you are going to support pkinit you need to support
aes-128.  It is adequately secure and has much better symmetric key
performance."  Note that you might end up getting aes256 session keys
if your service does not support aes128.