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From: Gaurav Dawra
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 07:01:57 -0800
Message-ID:
To: Martin Stiemerling
Cc: SPRING WG , tsv-art@ietf.org, Alvaro Retana
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Subject: Re: [spring] TSV-ART review of draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-msdc-08
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Hey Martin,
Seeking your feedback here. Regarding Section 7.1, The intent of the
document is to describe one suggestive way and do not attempt to
standardize any suggested mechanisms based considering the Informational
nature. Authors do not attempt to fully solve =E2=80=93 but to indicate how=
SR
helps towards this.The details of how the hosts figure out what paths to
take through the network such that the TCP and application are not affected
is outside the scope of this document.
Would you prefer to add perhaps - =E2=80=9Cdetails outside the scope=E2=80=
=9D or =E2=80=9Cthis is
one of the ways=E2=80=9D or something else?
Cheers,
Gaurav
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:47 PM, Gaurav Dawra wrote=
:
> Hey Martin,
>
> Sorry for late reply. Please see some comments inline[Gaurav]
>
> On Jan 9, 2018, at 2:25 PM, Martin Stiemerling wrote=
:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've reviewed this document as part of the transport area review team's
> ongoing effort to review key IETF documents. These comments were written
> primarily for the transport area directors, but are copied to the
> document's authors for their information and to allow them to address any
> issues raised. When done at the time of IETF Last Call, the authors shoul=
d
> consider this review together with any other last-call comments they
> receive. Please always CC tsv-art@=E2=80=A6 if you reply to or forward th=
is
> review.
>
> Summary:
> This draft has serious issues in Section 7.1, 7.2 and in one part of
> Section3, described in the review, and needs to be rethought. The other
> sections are good AFAIK.
>
>
> Technicals:
> The overall draft looks ok, but the three points below look strange and
> need a fix before publication IMHO:
>
> Both Sections, 7.1. and 7.2., are describing ideas, but not well proven
> funcationality and not even safe to use functionality. Both are some sort
> discussing that different paths in the network could be used by the end
> host traffic. This sounds pretty much like the Path Aware Networking
> Proposed Research Group (https://irtf.org/panrg) and hints to the fact
> that there is no commonly understand and accepted engineering solution in
> this space.
>
> Section 7.1:
> [KANDULA04] is a really old reference that hasn't been followed up in
> recent times and even worse there is no evidence that this is going to wo=
rk
> good enough or stable enough under real Internet traffic. Additionally, i=
t
> is more than unclear how any modern TCP implementation will react to this
>
> [Gaurav] Will get back on this.
>
>
> Section 7.2:
> This section describes an idea without detailing too much about any
> further aspects. Further it changes the commonly accepted notion of what =
an
> end host can do with the network. At best this would require a good
> definition of what an end host in your setting is, e.g., a highly modifie=
d
> piece of (at least) software that usually not found in OS availble on the
> market (yet?)
> Further communicating instantaneous path characteristics to a central
> point is potentially a bad idea, as the data is already outdated when
> reported by any node.
>
> [Gaurav] I believe Authors are trying to highlight that Host which is
> defined in (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-
> routing-15) can influence the traffic based on the Calculations locally
> or jointly with the controller. Implementations can decide how much
> Centralized -vs- localized control is allowed at Host based on performanc=
e
> data collection.
>
>
> Section 3, 3rd bullet point:
> It is the foundation of TCP that the network is regarded as a black box
> and that you infer from the transmission of packets what the current stat=
e
> of the network path is. Inferring network path metrics (you mention SRTT,
> MSS, CWND ) is a bad idea, as this would required that all paths exhibit
> this and if not what is going to happen?
> It could be an interesting research field to change many points in TCP's
> behavior, but this once again points to the fact that this not the IETF
> works but IRTF or elsewhere.
>
> [Gaurav] Martin, Authors are trying to suggest that TCP is rightly
> treating Network as Black Box. Authors are implying per path performance
> metrics as not cached. Is there some change in text you are suggesting?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gaurav
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>
>
>
--94eb2c0b7d941cbcd605665b2465
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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Hey Martin,
Seeking your feedback here.=
Regarding Section=C2=A07.1, The intent of the document is to describe one =
suggestive way and do not attempt to standardize any suggested mechanisms b=
ased considering the Informational nature. Authors do not attempt to fully =
solve =E2=80=93 but to indicate how SR helps towards this.The details of ho=
w the hosts figure out what paths to take through the network such that the=
TCP and application are not affected is outside the scope of this document=
.
Would you prefer to add perhaps - =E2=80=9Cdetai=
ls outside the scope=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cthis is one of the ways=E2=80=9D =
or something else?
Cheers,
Gaurav
--94eb2c0b7d941cbcd605665b2465--
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)"
To: Jeff Tantsura , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
CC: SPRING WG
Thread-Topic: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
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Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2018 17:13:29 +0000
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Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2018 10:13:32 -0800
From: Jeff Tantsura
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
CC: SPRING WG
Message-ID: <32317B78-C271-4EC7-86C3-B02994916A75@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
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Subject: Re: [spring] Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
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Hi Ketan,
=20
Thanks for responding.
I=E2=80=99m completely with you here, drafts are complimentary, moreover, draft p=
oi extensively uses and references policy draft.=20
My only request is to reference draft poi for the use cases that are releva=
nt, such as section 9.1.
=20
Hope this makes sense and clarifies the intentions.=20
Thanks!
=20
Cheers,
Jeff
From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)"
Date: Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 09:14
To: Jeff Tantsura , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment=
-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
Cc: SPRING WG
Subject: RE: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
=20
Hi Jeff/All,
=20
Perhaps there is some misunderstanding on the content in the policy draft a=
nd let me try to clarify the same.
=20
Section 4 of the policy draft introduces and describes the different Segmen=
t Types. We wanted to introduce a segment type to indicate in general a =E2=80=9Cn=
on-IP=E2=80=9D link that may be used to divert traffic into a link/segment as a pa=
rt of an explicit segment list. This type of link could be an optical transp=
ort path, or some Layer-2 link/channel, or such. In the previous rev 04, we =
introduced a new Segment Type 12 for this purpose but after review/feedback,=
we realized that this was not necessary. Hence in the 05 version, it is cla=
rified that Segment Type 5 or 7 may be used as such.
=20
Section 9.1 is actually an illustration of the use-case of such a layer-2 s=
egment type used for an SR Policy as described above. Even if the example is=
integrated-DWDM interface, it is clarified that the same applies for any ot=
her layer-2 or =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link representation on the router. The policy dr=
aft provides the SR Policy framework and definition.
=20
The poi draft is very important IMHO as it covers and explains the optical =
transport SR Policies along with their use-cases. This draft actually specif=
ies the Optical Transport SR policy in the form of Transport Segments =E2=80=93 it=
introduces this new type of transport segment and SR policy as it reference=
s the policy draft. It also talks about the Optical Transport Policy being u=
sed through its BSID in the IP layers. This maps to Segment Type 1 in the po=
licy draft =E2=80=93 just similar to a SR Policy between IP segments. It is absolu=
tely correct that the poi draft specifies the control plane extensions and T=
LV for the optical transport segments and capabilities. The policy draft doe=
s not do this.
=20
So I do believe the policy and poi drafts are complementary.
=20
Thanks,
Ketan
=20
From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: 01 March 2018 03:09
To: draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org; draft-anand-spri=
ng-poi-sr@ietf.org
Cc: SPRING WG
Subject: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
=20
Hello authors of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy(further refer=
ences as policy draft),
=20
We, authors of draft-anand-spring-poi-sr draft(further referenced as poi dr=
aft) have noted that section 9.1 of 04 version of the policy draft now has I=
P/Optical use case, that is in great details described in the poi draft. It =
also references policy draft and in details explains how it could be used in=
IP/Optical case.
=20
All control plane extensions needed for the solution to work are defined in=
the poi draft.
Rather than having 2 different drafts trying to specify same technology, we=
think that for the IP/Optical case a reference (normative) to the poi draft=
would be in place.
=20
Thanks and looking forward to working with you!
=20
Cheers,
Jeff on behalf of co-authors
=20
P.S. Since Clarence is on the both drafts, I=E2=80=99d let him speak for himself.
=20
--B_3602744014_1739838749
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charset="UTF-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ketan,
&=
nbsp;
Than=
ks for responding.
I=E2=80=99m completely with you here, drafts are complimentary, more=
over, draft poi extensively uses and references policy draft.
My only request is=
to reference draft poi for the use cases that are relevant, such as section=
9.1.
Hope this makes sense and clarifies the intentions.
Thanks!=
Jeff
From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@=
cisco.com>
Date: Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 09:14
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-filsfils-spring-=
segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" <draft-filsfils-spring-segment-rout=
ing-policy@ietf.org>, "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org" <=
draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ie=
tf.org>
Subject: RE: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)=
Hi Jeff/All,=
Perhaps there is some misunderstandin=
g on the content in the policy draft and let me try to clarify the same.
=
Section 4 of the policy dr=
aft introduces and describes the different Segment Types. We wanted to intro=
duce a segment type to indicate in general a =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link that may be u=
sed to divert traffic into a link/segment as a part of an explicit segment l=
ist. This type of link could be an optical transport path, or some Layer-2 l=
ink/channel, or such. In the previous rev 04, we introduced a new Segment Ty=
pe 12 for this purpose but after review/feedback, we realized that this was =
not necessary. Hence in the 05 version, it is clarified that Segment Type 5 =
or 7 may be used as such.
Section 9.1 is actually an illustration of the use-case of such a layer-2=
segment type used for an SR Policy as described above. Even if the example =
is integrated-DWDM interface, it is clarified that the same applies for any =
other layer-2 or =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link representation on the router. The policy =
draft provides the SR Policy framework and definition.
<=
p class=3DMsoNormal>
The poi draft is very important IMHO as it c=
overs and explains the optical transport SR Policies along with their use-ca=
ses. This draft actually specifies the Optical Transport SR policy in the fo=
rm of Transport Segments =E2=80=93 it introduces this new type of transport segmen=
t and SR policy as it references the policy draft. It also talks about the O=
ptical Transport Policy being used through its BSID in the IP layers. This m=
aps to Segment Type 1 in the policy draft =E2=80=93 just similar to a SR Policy be=
tween IP segments. It is absolutely correct that the poi draft specifies the=
control plane extensions and TLV for the optical transport segments and cap=
abilities. The policy draft does not do this.
So I do believe the policy and poi drafts are complem=
entary.
<=
/span>
Thanks,<=
o:p>
Ketan
=
=
From: Jeff Tantsura [=
mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]
Sent: 01 March 2018 03:09
T=
o: draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org; draft-anand-sp=
ring-poi-sr@ietf.org
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org>
S=
ubject: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)=
p>
Hello authors of draft-fils=
fils-spring-segment-routing-policy(further references as policy draft),
=
p>
We, authors of draft-anand-spring-poi-sr draft(further =
referenced as poi draft) have noted that section 9.1 of 04 version of the po=
licy draft now has IP/Optical use case, that is in great details described i=
n the poi draft. It also references policy draft and in details explains how=
it could be used in IP/Optical case.
All control p=
lane extensions needed for the solution to work are defined in the poi draft=
.
Rather than having 2 differ=
ent drafts trying to specify same technology, we think that for the IP/Optic=
al case a reference (normative) to the poi draft would be in place.
Thanks and looking forward to working with you!=
Cheers,
Jeff on behalf of co-authors
P.S. Since Clarence is on the both drafts, I=E2=80=99d let him =
speak for himself.
=
--B_3602744014_1739838749--
From nobody Fri Mar 2 00:38:03 2018
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To: Jeff Tantsura , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
Cc: SPRING WG
References: <32317B78-C271-4EC7-86C3-B02994916A75@gmail.com>
From: "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)"
Message-ID: <8de30b43-3696-c067-fcc3-f7a07924a691@cisco.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 09:37:48 +0100
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Subject: Re: [spring] Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
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Jeff,
For sure. It was our intention to have this reference. It is absolutely
obvious that it must be. The point of the section 9.1 and especially the
new SID that we defined is to provide the proper support/context for the
POI draft and hence the reference is clear.
Cheers,
Clarence
On 01/03/2018 19:13, Jeff Tantsura wrote:
> Hi Ketan,
>
> Thanks for responding.
>
> I’m completely with you here, drafts are complimentary, moreover, draft
> poi extensively uses and references policy draft.
>
> My only request is to reference draft poi for the use cases that are
> relevant, such as section 9.1.
>
> Hope this makes sense and clarifies the intentions.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
> *From: *"Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)"
> *Date: *Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 09:14
> *To: *Jeff Tantsura ,
> "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org"
> ,
> "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
> *Cc: *SPRING WG
> *Subject: *RE: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
>
> Hi Jeff/All,
>
> Perhaps there is some misunderstanding on the content in the policy
> draft and let me try to clarify the same.
>
> Section 4 of the policy draft introduces and describes the different
> Segment Types. We wanted to introduce a segment type to indicate in
> general a “non-IP” link that may be used to divert traffic into a
> link/segment as a part of an explicit segment list. This type of link
> could be an optical transport path, or some Layer-2 link/channel, or
> such. In the previous rev 04, we introduced a new Segment Type 12 for
> this purpose but after review/feedback, we realized that this was not
> necessary. Hence in the 05 version, it is clarified that Segment Type 5
> or 7 may be used as such.
>
> Section 9.1 is actually an illustration of the use-case of such a
> layer-2 segment type used for an SR Policy as described above. Even if
> the example is integrated-DWDM interface, it is clarified that the same
> applies for any other layer-2 or “non-IP” link representation on the
> router. The policy draft provides the SR Policy framework and definition.
>
> The poi draft is very important IMHO as it covers and explains the
> optical transport SR Policies along with their use-cases. This draft
> actually specifies the Optical Transport SR policy in the form of
> Transport Segments – it introduces this new type of transport segment
> and SR policy as it references the policy draft. It also talks about the
> Optical Transport Policy being used through its BSID in the IP layers.
> This maps to Segment Type 1 in the policy draft – just similar to a SR
> Policy between IP segments. It is absolutely correct that the poi draft
> specifies the control plane extensions and TLV for the optical transport
> segments and capabilities. The policy draft does not do this.
>
> So I do believe the policy and poi drafts are complementary.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
> *From:*Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 01 March 2018 03:09
> *To:* draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org;
> draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org
> *Cc:* SPRING WG
> *Subject:* Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
>
> Hello authors of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy(further
> references as policy draft),
>
> We, authors of draft-anand-spring-poi-sr draft(further referenced as poi
> draft) have noted that section 9.1 of 04 version of the policy draft now
> has IP/Optical use case, that is in great details described in the poi
> draft. It also references policy draft and in details explains how it
> could be used in IP/Optical case.
>
> All control plane extensions needed for the solution to work are defined
> in the poi draft.
>
> Rather than having 2 different drafts trying to specify same technology,
> we think that for the IP/Optical case a reference (normative) to the poi
> draft would be in place.
>
> Thanks and looking forward to working with you!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff on behalf of co-authors
>
> P.S. Since Clarence is on the both drafts, I’d let him speak for himself.
>
From nobody Fri Mar 2 00:39:38 2018
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)"
To: Jeff Tantsura , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
CC: SPRING WG
Thread-Topic: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
Thread-Index: AQHTsYkHSpc/ogwggE60cwtC7GRo8KO8n2oA
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 08:39:03 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
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--_000_332fc7772a1d4fdcbfef61177351d1c7XCHALN008ciscocom_--
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User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.a.0.180210
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 09:58:22 -0800
From: Jeff Tantsura
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
CC: SPRING WG
Message-ID: <8D6EC396-DFD5-46D2-91AC-8708FAC2B307@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
References: <32317B78-C271-4EC7-86C3-B02994916A75@gmail.com> <332fc7772a1d4fdcbfef61177351d1c7@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <332fc7772a1d4fdcbfef61177351d1c7@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3602829502_74581843"
Archived-At:
Subject: Re: [spring] Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
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charset="UTF-8"
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Ketan,
=20
Thank you for addressing my comments.
Always a pleasure working with you!=20
=20
Cheers,
Jeff
From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)"
Date: Friday, March 2, 2018 at 00:39
To: Jeff Tantsura , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment=
-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
Cc: SPRING WG
Subject: RE: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing=
-policy (IP/Optical)
=20
Hi Jeff,
=20
Thanks for clarifying and we should definitely add the reference to the POI=
draft in sec 9.1. I=E2=80=99ll work with other authors to incorporate the same in=
the next rev.
=20
Also thanks for pointing this out as it helps indeed to clarify the relatio=
nship between these two drafts and the both draft authors=E2=80=99 intentions.
=20
Thanks,
Ketan
=20
From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: 01 March 2018 23:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) ; draft-filsfils-spring-seg=
ment-routing-policy@ietf.org; draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org
Cc: SPRING WG
Subject: Re: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing=
-policy (IP/Optical)
=20
Hi Ketan,
=20
Thanks for responding.
I=E2=80=99m completely with you here, drafts are complimentary, moreover, draft p=
oi extensively uses and references policy draft.=20
My only request is to reference draft poi for the use cases that are releva=
nt, such as section 9.1.
=20
Hope this makes sense and clarifies the intentions.=20
Thanks!
=20
Cheers,
Jeff
From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)"
Date: Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 09:14
To: Jeff Tantsura , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment=
-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
Cc: SPRING WG
Subject: RE: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
=20
Hi Jeff/All,
=20
Perhaps there is some misunderstanding on the content in the policy draft a=
nd let me try to clarify the same.
=20
Section 4 of the policy draft introduces and describes the different Segmen=
t Types. We wanted to introduce a segment type to indicate in general a =E2=80=9Cn=
on-IP=E2=80=9D link that may be used to divert traffic into a link/segment as a pa=
rt of an explicit segment list. This type of link could be an optical transp=
ort path, or some Layer-2 link/channel, or such. In the previous rev 04, we =
introduced a new Segment Type 12 for this purpose but after review/feedback,=
we realized that this was not necessary. Hence in the 05 version, it is cla=
rified that Segment Type 5 or 7 may be used as such.
=20
Section 9.1 is actually an illustration of the use-case of such a layer-2 s=
egment type used for an SR Policy as described above. Even if the example is=
integrated-DWDM interface, it is clarified that the same applies for any ot=
her layer-2 or =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link representation on the router. The policy dr=
aft provides the SR Policy framework and definition.
=20
The poi draft is very important IMHO as it covers and explains the optical =
transport SR Policies along with their use-cases. This draft actually specif=
ies the Optical Transport SR policy in the form of Transport Segments =E2=80=93 it=
introduces this new type of transport segment and SR policy as it reference=
s the policy draft. It also talks about the Optical Transport Policy being u=
sed through its BSID in the IP layers. This maps to Segment Type 1 in the po=
licy draft =E2=80=93 just similar to a SR Policy between IP segments. It is absolu=
tely correct that the poi draft specifies the control plane extensions and T=
LV for the optical transport segments and capabilities. The policy draft doe=
s not do this.
=20
So I do believe the policy and poi drafts are complementary.
=20
Thanks,
Ketan
=20
From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]=20
Sent: 01 March 2018 03:09
To: draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org; draft-anand-spri=
ng-poi-sr@ietf.org
Cc: SPRING WG
Subject: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
=20
Hello authors of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy(further refer=
ences as policy draft),
=20
We, authors of draft-anand-spring-poi-sr draft(further referenced as poi dr=
aft) have noted that section 9.1 of 04 version of the policy draft now has I=
P/Optical use case, that is in great details described in the poi draft. It =
also references policy draft and in details explains how it could be used in=
IP/Optical case.
=20
All control plane extensions needed for the solution to work are defined in=
the poi draft.
Rather than having 2 different drafts trying to specify same technology, we=
think that for the IP/Optical case a reference (normative) to the poi draft=
would be in place.
=20
Thanks and looking forward to working with you!
=20
Cheers,
Jeff on behalf of co-authors
=20
P.S. Since Clarence is on the both drafts, I=E2=80=99d let him speak for himself.
=20
--B_3602829502_74581843
Content-type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Ketan,=
&nbs=
p;
Thank y=
ou for addressing my comments.
Always a pleasure working with you!
<=
/span>
Jeff<=
/span>
From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ket=
ant@cisco.com>
Date: Friday, March 2, 2018 at 00:39
To: <=
/b>Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-filsfils-sprin=
g-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" <draft-filsfils-spring-segment-ro=
uting-policy@ietf.org>, "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org" &l=
t;draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@=
ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-=
spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
<=
p class=3DMsoNormal>
Hi Je=
ff,
Thanks for clarifying and we should definitely =
add the reference to the POI draft in sec 9.1. I=E2=80=99ll work with other author=
s to incorporate the same in the next rev.
=
Also tha=
nks for pointing this out as it helps indeed to clarify the relationship bet=
ween these two drafts and the both draft authors=E2=80=99 intentions.<=
/o:p>
&nb=
sp;
Thanks,
Ketan
=
From: Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.c=
om]
Sent: 01 March 2018 23:44
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ket=
ant) <ketant@cisco.com>; draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@=
ietf.org; draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org
Cc: SPRING WG <spr=
ing@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsf=
ils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
=
div>
Hi Ketan,
Thanks for responding.
I=E2=80=99m completely with you here, d=
rafts are complimentary, moreover, draft poi extensively uses and references=
policy draft.
My only request is to reference draft poi for the use cases that =
are relevant, such as section 9.1.
<=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>
Hope this makes sense and clarifies the inte=
ntions.
Thanks!
Jeff
From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
Date: Thursday, March 1=
, 2018 at 09:14
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-filsfils-spring-segment=
-routing-policy@ietf.org" <draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-poli=
cy@ietf.org>, "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org" <draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org>
Cc: SPRING WG <spring@ietf.org&=
gt;
Subject: RE: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)=
=
Hi Jeff/All,<=
/a>
<=
p class=3DMsoNormal>Perhaps there is some misunderstanding on th=
e content in the policy draft and let me try to clarify the same.
<=
/span>
Section 4 of the policy draft int=
roduces and describes the different Segment Types. We wanted to introduce a =
segment type to indicate in general a =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link that may be used to =
divert traffic into a link/segment as a part of an explicit segment list. Th=
is type of link could be an optical transport path, or some Layer-2 link/cha=
nnel, or such. In the previous rev 04, we introduced a new Segment Type 12 f=
or this purpose but after review/feedback, we realized that this was not nec=
essary. Hence in the 05 version, it is clarified that Segment Type 5 or 7 ma=
y be used as such.
Sect=
ion 9.1 is actually an illustration of the use-case of such a layer-2 segmen=
t type used for an SR Policy as described above. Even if the example is inte=
grated-DWDM interface, it is clarified that the same applies for any other l=
ayer-2 or =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link representation on the router. The policy draft p=
rovides the SR Policy framework and definition.
=
The poi draft is very important IMHO as it covers a=
nd explains the optical transport SR Policies along with their use-cases. Th=
is draft actually specifies the Optical Transport SR policy in the form of T=
ransport Segments =E2=80=93 it introduces this new type of transport segment and S=
R policy as it references the policy draft. It also talks about the Optical =
Transport Policy being used through its BSID in the IP layers. This maps to =
Segment Type 1 in the policy draft =E2=80=93 just similar to a SR Policy between I=
P segments. It is absolutely correct that the poi draft specifies the contro=
l plane extensions and TLV for the optical transport segments and capabiliti=
es. The policy draft does not do this.
So I do believe the policy and poi drafts are complementary.=
<=
o:p>
Thanks,
Ketan
&nbs=
p;
Hello authors of draft-filsfils-s=
pring-segment-routing-policy(further references as policy draft),
We, authors of draft-anand-spring-poi-sr draft(further refere=
nced as poi draft) have noted that section 9.1 of 04 version of the policy d=
raft now has IP/Optical use case, that is in great details described in the =
poi draft. It also references policy draft and in details explains how it co=
uld be used in IP/Optical case.
All control plane e=
xtensions needed for the solution to work are defined in the poi draft.
Rather than having 2 different dr=
afts trying to specify same technology, we think that for the IP/Optical cas=
e a reference (normative) to the poi draft would be in place.
Thanks and looking forward to working with you!=
<=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>
Cheers,
<=
span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>Jeff on behalf of co-authors
P.S. Since Clarence is on the both drafts, I=E2=80=99d let him speak =
for himself.
--B_3602829502_74581843--
From nobody Fri Mar 2 09:59:14 2018
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Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2018 09:59:08 -0800
From: Jeff Tantsura
To: "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)" , "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" , "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org" , "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
CC: SPRING WG
Message-ID: <39DACEE1-47C5-4732-850C-57DB1A640A43@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
References: <32317B78-C271-4EC7-86C3-B02994916A75@gmail.com> <8de30b43-3696-c067-fcc3-f7a07924a691@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [spring] Section 9.1 of the draft draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy (IP/Optical)
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Thanks Clarence, we are on the same page then.
Cheers,
Jeff
=EF=BB=BFOn 3/2/18, 00:37, "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)" wr=
ote:
Jeff,
=20
For sure. It was our intention to have this reference. It is absolutely=
=20
obvious that it must be. The point of the section 9.1 and especially th=
e=20
new SID that we defined is to provide the proper support/context for th=
e=20
POI draft and hence the reference is clear.
=20
Cheers,
Clarence
=20
On 01/03/2018 19:13, Jeff Tantsura wrote:
> Hi Ketan,
>=20
> Thanks for responding.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m completely with you here, drafts are complimentary, moreover, d=
raft=20
> poi extensively uses and references policy draft.
>=20
> My only request is to reference draft poi for the use cases that are=20
> relevant, such as section 9.1.
>=20
> Hope this makes sense and clarifies the intentions.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Jeff
>=20
> *From: *"Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)"
> *Date: *Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 09:14
> *To: *Jeff Tantsura ,=20
> "draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org"=20
> ,=20
> "draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org"
> *Cc: *SPRING WG
> *Subject: *RE: Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
>=20
> Hi Jeff/All,
>=20
> Perhaps there is some misunderstanding on the content in the policy=20
> draft and let me try to clarify the same.
>=20
> Section 4 of the policy draft introduces and describes the different=20
> Segment Types. We wanted to introduce a segment type to indicate in=20
> general a =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link that may be used to divert traffic into a=
=20
> link/segment as a part of an explicit segment list. This type of link=
=20
> could be an optical transport path, or some Layer-2 link/channel, or=20
> such. In the previous rev 04, we introduced a new Segment Type 12 for=
=20
> this purpose but after review/feedback, we realized that this was not=
=20
> necessary. Hence in the 05 version, it is clarified that Segment Type=
5=20
> or 7 may be used as such.
>=20
> Section 9.1 is actually an illustration of the use-case of such a=20
> layer-2 segment type used for an SR Policy as described above. Even i=
f=20
> the example is integrated-DWDM interface, it is clarified that the sa=
me=20
> applies for any other layer-2 or =E2=80=9Cnon-IP=E2=80=9D link representation on =
the=20
> router. The policy draft provides the SR Policy framework and definit=
ion.
>=20
> The poi draft is very important IMHO as it covers and explains the=20
> optical transport SR Policies along with their use-cases. This draft=20
> actually specifies the Optical Transport SR policy in the form of=20
> Transport Segments =E2=80=93 it introduces this new type of transport segme=
nt=20
> and SR policy as it references the policy draft. It also talks about =
the=20
> Optical Transport Policy being used through its BSID in the IP layers=
.=20
> This maps to Segment Type 1 in the policy draft =E2=80=93 just similar to a=
SR=20
> Policy between IP segments. It is absolutely correct that the poi dra=
ft=20
> specifies the control plane extensions and TLV for the optical transp=
ort=20
> segments and capabilities. The policy draft does not do this.
>=20
> So I do believe the policy and poi drafts are complementary.
>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> Ketan
>=20
> *From:*Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 01 March 2018 03:09
> *To:* draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy@ietf.org;=20
> draft-anand-spring-poi-sr@ietf.org
> *Cc:* SPRING WG
> *Subject:* Section 9.1 of the draft (IP/Optical)
>=20
> Hello authors of draft-filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy(further=
=20
> references as policy draft),
>=20
> We, authors of draft-anand-spring-poi-sr draft(further referenced as =
poi=20
> draft) have noted that section 9.1 of 04 version of the policy draft =
now=20
> has IP/Optical use case, that is in great details described in the po=
i=20
> draft. It also references policy draft and in details explains how it=
=20
> could be used in IP/Optical case.
>=20
> All control plane extensions needed for the solution to work are defi=
ned=20
> in the poi draft.
>=20
> Rather than having 2 different drafts trying to specify same technolo=
gy,=20
> we think that for the IP/Optical case a reference (normative) to the =
poi=20
> draft would be in place.
>=20
> Thanks and looking forward to working with you!
>=20
> Cheers,
>=20
> Jeff on behalf of co-authors
>=20
> P.S. Since Clarence is on the both drafts, I=E2=80=99d let him speak for hi=
mself.
>=20
=20
From nobody Fri Mar 2 16:00:58 2018
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From: Greg Mirsky
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 16:00:47 -0800
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To: spring-chairs@ietf.org, spring
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Subject: [spring] Presentation slots request at IETF-101
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--089e082b53a409e4a0056676c986
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Dear Bruno, Rob, and Martin,
would appreciate opportunity to present and discuss two drafts during
SPRING WG meeting in London:
- Unified Identifier in IPv6 Segment Routing Networks
draft-mirsky-6man-unified-id-sr presenter: Greg Mirsky time: 10
min
- BFD in SR Networks using MPLS data
plane draft-mirsky-spring-bfd presenter: Greg
Mirsky time: 10 min
Regards,
Greg
--089e082b53a409e4a0056676c986
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Dear Bruno, Rob, and Martin,
would appreciate opportun=
ity to present and discuss two drafts during SPRING WG meeting in London:=
div>
- Unified Identifier in IPv6 Segment Routing Networks draft-=
mirsky-6man-unified-id-sr=C2=A0 =C2=A0 presenter:=C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg Mirsky=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 time:=C2=A0 =C2=A010 min
- BFD in SR Networks using MPL=
S=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0data plane=C2=A0draft-mirsky-spring-bfd=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0presenter:=C2=A0 =C2=A0Greg Mirsky=C2=A0 =C2=A0 time:=C2=A0 =C2=A010 min=
Regards,
Greg
--089e082b53a409e4a0056676c986--
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Thread-Topic: [spring] SPRING @ IETF 101: slot request
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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 15:31:47 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] SPRING @ IETF 101: slot request
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From:
To: Greg Mirsky
CC: "spring-chairs@ietf.org" , spring
Thread-Topic: Presentation slots request at IETF-101
Thread-Index: AQHTsoK2puQVywQoPk+iYNnJMak8P6PBzVzg
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 15:47:41 +0000
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Subject: Re: [spring] Presentation slots request at IETF-101
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Thread-Topic: SPRING - rechartering discussion
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Hi Alvaro
sorry for the late reply.
I am including the questions and comments in the link [1] and the reply
to each one of them
See "Ahmed" underneath each question and comment
Q1. Why is this document on the Standards Track? From the Introduction:
“This drafts describes how Segment Routing operates on top of the MPLS
data plane.” Describes, yes. On the other hand, the Shepherd’s
write-up says that it “specifies the generic functions of the
architecture” – I don’t see a specification, just a description. As
such, I think this document should be Informational.
This document specifies concepts and externally visible behaviors such as
- Specifies what "MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing" means
- Specifies the rules governing the value of the local label
corresponding to a SID
- Specifies the rules governing the SRGB and and SRLB
- Specifies what to do when a router violates the rules governing the SRGB
- Defines and addresses incoming label collision
- Specifies rules governing redistributing prefixes that have prefix-SIDs
- Defines and addresses Outgoing Label Collision
- details for the forwarding behavior including what to do when some or
all next-hops are not SR capable
Q2. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) is the only one
with any real content…but there are only a couple of things in it that
are not in the Architecture document: the introduction of the SRLB, and
some words about the index – both of which should be really explained in
the Architecture document, and not here. I wonder what the value of
publishing this document really is. What long-term archival value does
it provide?
Ahmed:
This question is answered within the reply to Q1
Q3. I also have to wonder about the IPR declared for this document. If
most of the information here is already defined, described or specified
in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing, should the IPR declaration apply
to that document as well (or maybe instead of this one)? It is not the
IETF’s role (including the WG) to discuss whether a piece of IPR is
valid or not – I just want to make sure the disclosures apply to the
right document.
Ahmed:
I believe we made all the relevant IPR declarations. But if you think
that some IPR applicable to draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing are also
applicable to this draft we will make these declarations also towards
this draft
M1. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) explains how “in
the MPLS instantiation, the SID values are allocated within a reduced
20-bit space out of the 32-bit SID space.” However, I couldn’t find
where draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing defines the SID space as using
32 bits (or any other length). In fact, the closest that document comes
is when it defines an SID and mentions “Examples of SIDs are: an MPLS
label, an index value in an MPLS label space, an IPv6 address.” I’m
assuming the “32-bit SID space” comes from the fact that the extensions
define an SID of that length. All this is to say that as you describe
how SR operates in the MPLS dataplane, do so not explicitly depending on
the implementation of the extensions (which in fact seem to already
account for different lengths).
Ahmed:
this new version (version 12) gives extensive and specific details about
how to calculate the local and outgoing label given the SID index
M2.1. “The notion of indexed global segment, defined in
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing]…” That document doesn’t properly
define the concept/use of the index. There are several mentions in this
document that I think rely on a proper definition/discussion of the concept.
Ahmed
the new version (version 12) clearly specifies the use of the index and
how it is translated to local and outgoing labels
M2.2. The concept of an SRLB is not defined in the Architecture document either.
Ahmed:
Addressed in this version (version 12)
M3.1. [minor] I hope to see an explanation of the “[SRGB(next_hop)+index]” notation.
Ahmed
This version clearly addresses this part in section 2.4 by specifying the structure of SRGB and how to calculate the label given the SRGB ranges
M3.2. What is a “valid SRGB”? I don’t think the validity of the SRGB is described in the Architecture document.
Ahmed
This version clearly specifies the rules governing the SRGB and specifies what other routers do when receiving SRGB advertisements that do not conform to these rules
M3.3. I’m assuming that once the “next-hop MUST be considered as not supporting” then the packets are dropped, right?
Ahmed
This version clearly specifies the forwarding behavior in section 2.10 and what to do when the next-hop does not support segment routing
M3.4. [Maybe I’m missing something obvious here.] Going back to the validity of the SRGB advertised by a specific node, shouldn’t the ingress node verify that before imposing a path that will fail? But I couldn’t find anything in the Architecture document that talks about the ingress node verifying that the path is valid (including the validity of the SRGB).
Ahmed
The version specifies what to do for the topmost label. Section 2.10 refers to [I.D.filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy] when there is a need to calculate the labels underneath the topmost label
M4. Still in Section 2: “As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing], using the same SRGB on all nodes within the SR domain eases operations and troubleshooting and is expected to be a deployment guideline.” As I mentioned in my review of the Architecture document, that document doesn’t contain deployment guidelines related to the SRGB, and it doesn’t describe how “using the same SRGB…eases operations and troubleshooting”.
Ahmed:
We removed this paragraph
P1. The term “service chain” is used in the Abstract. Given that the concept is not vital to the architecture and that there might be unnecessary confusion with SFC, I would suggest taking it out.
Ahmed
we removed this term
P2. Informative References to VPN, VPLS, VPWS, LDP, RSVP-TE…would be nice.
Ahmed
we removed these terms
P3. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) says that “a
controller-driven network…MAY use the control plane to discover the
available set of local SIDs”. The “MAY” implies that there is a choice
(i.e. it is optional) and that other discovery mechanisms exist. What
are those other choices? Note that earlier in this section you already
wrote that IGPs are used for flooding the information. s/MAY/may
Ahmed:
Frankly I do not understand the concern here.
P4. Section 2: “…the use of the binding segment as specified in
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing], also allows to substantially reduce
the length of the segment list…” Nice, but there is no description of
the binding segment in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing.
Ahmed:
We removed this statement
P5. References. Please take a look at rfc8174 and update the
“Requirements Language” and associated references.
Ahmed:
This one I missed while addressing the more important changes. I will
address it in the next version
N1. I think that the references to *-segment-routing-extensions are
superfluous. BTW, the fourth paragraph of the Introduction uses a
reference to *-segment-routing-extensions to point at ISIS/OSPF (the
protocols!).
Ahmed
IMO references to routing protocols greatly helps in understanding the
the instantiation of SR over MPLS. So I would rather leave them here
N2. It would be very nice if the examples used IPv6 addresses.
Ahmed
The objective of example is to clarify concepts. Because people are used
to IPv4 a lot more than IPv6, then the use of IPv4 instead of IPv6 helps
in achieving the objective of examples
On 2/23/2018 3:30 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote:
> Dear authors:
>
> I still haven’t seen a satisfactory reply to my AD Review of this
> document [1]. The latest version doubled (!) the size of the document
> (between versions -10 and -12)[2] without proper justification, or
> (more importantly!) discussion on the list.
>
> I am returning the document to the WG for proper discussion of the
> proposed changes.
>
> Alvaro.
>
> [1]
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/97KtDebyroHfuNvllpNVb0s66H8/?qid=630f4b40ce9622377f9d39fe84fdab1a
>
> [2]
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-10&url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12
>
>
> On February 23, 2018 at 8:06:56 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org
> (internet-drafts@ietf.org
> ) wrote:
>
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
>> directories.
>> This draft is a work item of the Source Packet Routing in Networking
>> WG of the IETF.
>>
>> Title : Segment Routing with MPLS data plane
>> Authors : Ahmed Bashandy
>> Clarence Filsfils
>> Stefano Previdi
>> Bruno Decraene
>> Stephane Litkowski
>> Rob Shakir
>> Filename : draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12.txt
>> Pages : 24
>> Date : 2018-02-23
>>
>> Abstract:
>> Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm. A node
>> steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called
>> segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. In the MPLS
>> dataplane, the SR header is instantiated through a label stack. This
>> document specifies the forwarding behavior to allow instantiating SR
>> over the MPLS dataplane.
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls/
>>
>> There are also htmlized versions available at:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12
>>
>>
>> A diff from the previous version is available at:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org
>> .
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
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Hi Alvaro
sorry for the late reply.
I am including the questions and comments in the link [1] and the
reply to each one of them
See "Ahmed" underneath each question and comment
Q1. Why is this document on the Standards Track? From the
Introduction: “This drafts describes how Segment Routing operates on
top of the MPLS data plane.” Describes, yes. On the other hand,
the Shepherd’s write-up says that it “specifies the generic
functions of the architecture” – I don’t see a specification, just a
description. As such, I think this document should be
Informational.
This document specifies concepts and externally visible behaviors
such as
- Specifies what "MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing" means
- Specifies the rules governing the value of the local label
corresponding to a SID
- Specifies the rules governing the SRGB and and SRLB
- Specifies what to do when a router violates the rules governing
the SRGB
- Defines and addresses incoming label collision
- Specifies rules governing redistributing prefixes that have
prefix-SIDs
- Defines and addresses Outgoing Label Collision
- details for the forwarding behavior including what to do when some
or all next-hops are not SR capable
Q2. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) is the only
one with any real content…but there are only a couple of things in
it that are not in the Architecture document: the introduction of
the SRLB, and some words about the index – both of which should be
really explained in the Architecture document, and not here. I
wonder what the value of publishing this document really is. What
long-term archival value does it provide?
Ahmed:
This question is answered within the reply to Q1
Q3. I also have to wonder about the IPR declared for this document.
If most of the information here is already defined, described or
specified in draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing, should the IPR
declaration apply to that document as well (or maybe instead of this
one)? It is not the IETF’s role (including the WG) to discuss
whether a piece of IPR is valid or not – I just want to make sure
the disclosures apply to the right document.
Ahmed:
I believe we made all the relevant IPR declarations. But if you
think that some IPR applicable to draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing
are also applicable to this draft we will make these declarations
also towards this draft
M1. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) explains how
“in the MPLS instantiation, the SID values are allocated within a
reduced 20-bit space out of the 32-bit SID space.” However, I
couldn’t find where draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing defines the
SID space as using 32 bits (or any other length). In fact, the
closest that document comes is when it defines an SID and mentions
“Examples of SIDs are: an MPLS label, an index value in an MPLS
label space, an IPv6 address.” I’m assuming the “32-bit SID space”
comes from the fact that the extensions define an SID of that
length. All this is to say that as you describe how SR operates in
the MPLS dataplane, do so not explicitly depending on the
implementation of the extensions (which in fact seem to already
account for different lengths).
Ahmed:
this new version (version 12) gives extensive and specific details
about how to calculate the local and outgoing label given the SID
index
M2.1. “The notion of indexed global segment, defined in
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing]…” That document doesn’t properly
define the concept/use of the index. There are several mentions in
this document that I think rely on a proper definition/discussion of
the concept.
Ahmed
the new version (version 12) clearly specifies the use of the index
and how it is translated to local and outgoing labels
M2.2. The concept of an SRLB is not defined in the Architecture document either.
Ahmed:
Addressed in this version (version 12)
M3.1. [minor] I hope to see an explanation of the “[SRGB(next_hop)+index]” notation.
Ahmed
This version clearly addresses this part in section 2.4 by specifying the structure of SRGB and how to calculate the label given the SRGB ranges
M3.2. What is a “valid SRGB”? I don’t think the validity of the SRGB is described in the Architecture document.
Ahmed
This version clearly specifies the rules governing the SRGB and specifies what other routers do when receiving SRGB advertisements that do not conform to these rules
M3.3. I’m assuming that once the “next-hop MUST be considered as not supporting” then the packets are dropped, right?
Ahmed
This version clearly specifies the forwarding behavior in section 2.10 and what to do when the next-hop does not support segment routing
M3.4. [Maybe I’m missing something obvious here.] Going back to the validity of the SRGB advertised by a specific node, shouldn’t the ingress node verify that before imposing a path that will fail? But I couldn’t find anything in the Architecture document that talks about the ingress node verifying that the path is valid (including the validity of the SRGB).
Ahmed
The version specifies what to do for the topmost label. Section 2.10 refers to [I.D.filsfils-spring-segment-routing-policy] when there is a need to calculate the labels underneath the topmost label
M4. Still in Section 2: “As described in [I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing], using the same SRGB on all nodes within the SR domain eases operations and troubleshooting and is expected to be a deployment guideline.” As I mentioned in my review of the Architecture document, that document doesn’t contain deployment guidelines related to the SRGB, and it doesn’t describe how “using the same SRGB…eases operations and troubleshooting”.
Ahmed:
We removed this paragraph
P1. The term “service chain” is used in the Abstract. Given that the concept is not vital to the architecture and that there might be unnecessary confusion with SFC, I would suggest taking it out.
Ahmed
we removed this term
P2. Informative References to VPN, VPLS, VPWS, LDP, RSVP-TE…would be nice.
Ahmed
we removed these terms
P3. Section 2. (MPLS Instantiation of Segment Routing) says that
“a controller-driven network…MAY use the control plane to discover
the available set of local SIDs”. The “MAY” implies that there is
a choice (i.e. it is optional) and that other discovery mechanisms
exist. What are those other choices? Note that earlier in this
section you already wrote that IGPs are used for flooding the
information. s/MAY/may
Ahmed:
Frankly I do not understand the concern here.
P4. Section 2: “…the use of the binding segment as specified in
[I-D.ietf-spring-segment-routing], also allows to substantially
reduce the length of the segment list…” Nice, but there is no
description of the binding segment in
draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing.
Ahmed:
We removed this statement
P5. References. Please take a look at rfc8174 and update the
“Requirements Language” and associated references.
Ahmed:
This one I missed while addressing the more important changes. I
will address it in the next version
N1. I think that the references to *-segment-routing-extensions
are superfluous. BTW, the fourth paragraph of the Introduction
uses a reference to *-segment-routing-extensions to point at
ISIS/OSPF (the protocols!).
Ahmed
IMO references to routing protocols greatly helps in understanding
the the instantiation of SR over MPLS. So I would rather leave
them here
N2. It would be very nice if the examples used IPv6 addresses.
Ahmed
The objective of example is to clarify concepts. Because people
are used to IPv4 a lot more than IPv6, then the use of IPv4
instead of IPv6 helps in achieving the objective of examples
On 2/23/2018 3:30 PM, Alvaro Retana wrote:
Dear
authors:
I
still haven’t seen a satisfactory reply to my AD Review of this
document [1]. The latest version doubled (!) the size of the
document (between versions -10 and -12)[2] without proper
justification, or (more importantly!) discussion on the list.
I
am returning the document to the WG for proper discussion of the
proposed changes.
Alvaro.
On February 23, 2018 at 8:06:56 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org
(internet-drafts@ietf.org)
wrote:
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From: "Francois Clad (fclad)"
To: =?utf-8?B?5b6Q5bCP6JmOKOS5ieWFiCk=?=
CC: SPRING WG List , draft-farrel-mpls-sfc , mpls , mpls-chairs , mpls
Thread-Topic: [spring] [mpls] The MPLS WG has placed draft-farrel-mpls-sfc in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued"
Thread-Index: AQHTtscjhbeMzgLth0qjnFgddm3aFQ==
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 10:20:54 +0000
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From: "Stefano Previdi (IETF)"
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Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 11:46:34 +0100
Cc: =?utf-8?B?IuW+kOWwj+iZjijkuYnlhYgpIg==?= , draft-farrel-mpls-sfc , mpls , SPRING WG List , mpls-chairs , mpls
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References: <152034533897.28338.3516810951049973930.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <783286e2-e7ef-4a1a-8fe3-3adf6142d92e.xiaohu.xxh@alibaba-inc.com>
To: "Francois Clad (fclad)"
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Subject: Re: [spring] [mpls] The MPLS WG has placed draft-farrel-mpls-sfc in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued"
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Francois, Xiaohu,=20
I fully agree with you.
s.
> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:20 AM, Francois Clad (fclad) =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Xiaohu, all,
>=20
> I agree with the point raised by Xiaohu. The draft-farrel-mpls-sfc is =
copying ideas described in draft-xu-mpls-service-chaining. Please note =
that the work in draft-xu-mpls-service-chaining started one year before =
draft-farrel-mpls-sfc.
>=20
> At IETF100, three drafts in this area were discussed / presented:
> - draft-xu-mpls-service-chaining
> - draft-farrel-mpls-sfc
> - draft-clad-spring-segment-routing-service-chaining
>=20
> There was discussion over the mic on the right home for these drafts =
among SFC, SPRING and MPLS, but no consensus was reached.
>=20
> As Xiaohu mentioned, draft-xu-mpls-service-chaining and =
draft-clad-spring-segment-routing-service-chaining have later merged as =
draft-xuclad-spring-sr-service-chaining. We have also requested a slot =
for presenting this draft during the upcoming IETF meeting.
>=20
> In this context, we believe that asking for WG adoption for one of =
these drafts is premature.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Francois
>=20
>> On 7 Mar 2018, at 01:13, =E5=BE=90=E5=B0=8F=E8=99=8E(=E4=B9=89=E5=85=88=
) wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi all,=20
>>=20
>> As I had pointed out at the last IETF meeting, section 6 of this =
draft has an serious overlap with =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xu-mpls-service-chaining-03 that has =
now been updated by =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xuclad-spring-sr-service-chaining-01 =
with a merge with draft-clad-spring-segment-routing-service-chaining.
>>=20
>> Hence, I'm very interesting to know the intention of such rewritting =
of a given mechanism that has been described in another draft. Is there =
any special nutrition?
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Xiaohu
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AIETF Secretariat =
>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4=EF=BC=9A2018=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=886=E6=
=97=A5(=E6=98=9F=E6=9C=9F=E4=BA=8C) 22:09
>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9Adraft-farrel-mpls-sfc =
; mpls ; mpls-chairs =
>> =E4=B8=BB=E3=80=80=E9=A2=98=EF=BC=9A[mpls] The MPLS WG has placed =
draft-farrel-mpls-sfc in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued"
>>=20
>>=20
>> The MPLS WG has placed draft-farrel-mpls-sfc in state
>> Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Loa Andersson)
>>=20
>> The document is available at
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-farrel-mpls-sfc/
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> mpls mailing list
>> mpls@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mpls
>> _______________________________________________
>> spring mailing list
>> spring@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> spring mailing list
> spring@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spring
From nobody Thu Mar 8 09:17:47 2018
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Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2018 09:17:42 -0800
From: "Ahmed Bashandy (bashandy)"
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Archived-At:
Subject: [spring] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12.txt
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--------------030205080809000608000409
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Hi,
Here is a new version of the draft. This version has non-trivial changes
from the previous one. Here is a summary of the changes
- Specifications of the rules governing SRGB and SRLB
- Specification of how to translate a SID index into a label
- Specification of what a router do when receiving an SRGB advertisement
that does not conform to the rules
- Handling incoming label collision
- Handling outgoing label collision
- Rules governing redistribution of routes that have SR-MPLS SIDs
Thanks
Ahmed
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12.txt
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 05:06:46 -0800
From:
To: Ahmed Bashandy , Bruno Decraene
, Clarence Filsfils ,
"Stefano Previdi" , Rob Shakir ,
"Stephane Litkowski"
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12.txt
has been successfully submitted by Ahmed Bashandy and posted to the
IETF repository.
Name: draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls
Revision: 12
Title: Segment Routing with MPLS data plane
Document date: 2018-02-23
Group: spring
Pages: 24
URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12.txt
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls/
Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12
Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12
Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-mpls-12
Abstract:
Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm. A node
steers a packet through a controlled set of instructions, called
segments, by prepending the packet with an SR header. In the MPLS
dataplane, the SR header is instantiated through a label stack. This
document specifies the forwarding behavior to allow instantiating SR
over the MPLS dataplane.
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
The IETF Secretariat
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From nobody Thu Mar 8 09:24:53 2018
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From: Rob Shakir
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2018 17:24:38 +0000
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Subject: [spring] Agenda for SPRING @ IETF 101 Posted
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Hi SPRING WG,
Bruno and I have posted the agenda for the SPRING session at IETF 101 at
https://tools.ietf.org/wg/spring/agenda. We have a 90 minute slot from
11:50 - 13:20 on Friday 23rd March.
We received a large number of requests for presentation slots at this IETF
- far in excess of the time that we have for the session. This has meant
that unfortunately, we haven't been able to accommodate all of them.
Rather, we have tried to take a sample of the different work areas that
were proposed, and allow sufficient time for the rechartering discussion.
We'd like to encourage the WG to:
* discuss drafts on the mailing list - as well as during the meeting
itself. This allows folks that don't attend meetings to contribute to the
discussion, and means that we can make best use of our face-to-face time.
* contribute to the rechartering discussion on the mailing list. There are
a few work areas outlined in the mail that Bruno sent, it'd be great to
have started this discussion prior to meeting in London. Bruno's original
post is here:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spring/hDgh_9Obq187xCs42-O7vcGIcPU
Kind regards,
Bruno & Rob.
From nobody Thu Mar 8 09:29:00 2018
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From: Rob Shakir
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2018 17:28:45 +0000
Message-ID:
To: "Ahmed Bashandy (bashandy)"