zerouter Zeroconf Router BOF IETF-55, Atlanta TUESDAY, November 19, 2002 Presentation slides can be found at: http://internet.motlabs.com/zerouter/ietf55/ Thanks to note takers: Stuart Cheshire, Jun-Ichiro (itojun) Hagino, Roger Kermode 10 mins Problem statement Williams ============================================================================= Brian Carpenter: What about multi-homed sites? Preventing accidental configuration of transit traffic should be in scope. Alex Zinin: Multi-area OSPF autoconfiguration? Aidan: No. Alex Zinin: What about security? Aidan: Zeroconf security is important, but hard. Brain Haberman: There is a prefix delegation requirements document in the ipv6 WG at the moment. Thomas Narten: May want to provide input to prefix delegation document, specifically ripple style. Craig Metz: Scope needs to be wider than just allocating addresses and subnet numbers - otherwise some other mechanism will be needed to negotiate/configure other parameters. James Kempf: Why only limited to small networks? Aidan: Want to set an achievable target. If we find a solution that does scale larger, that would be good. Christian Huitema: Larger networks make splits/joins more likely, and splits/joins are a problem, so limiting this to small networks is a good idea. Thomas Narten: Agreed, auto-configuring networks of thousands of links is probably not a priority at this time. 10 mins Prefix Delegation using a Ripple Model Haberman 10 mins IPv6 router auto-configuration using OSPFv3 Chelius 10 mins Automatic Router Configuration Protocol Linton 10 mins Zeroconf Subnet Allocation using UIAP Dimitrelis 10 mins Multi-link Subnets Thaler Erik Nordmark: Does multi-link detect and report loops? Dave Thaler: No, but that's no worse than today's NAT boxes. 30 mins Charter Discussion Williams ============================================================================= Thomas Narten: Apparently Multi-link Subnets has been moved out of IPv6 WG. Dave Thaler: Some of the Multi-link Subnet work has moved out of IPv6 WG, but not all. Margaret Wasserman: The Multi-link Subnet work is potentially interesting. Erik Nordmark: How stable do we want host addresses to be? Aidan Williams: Should be as stable as possible. Brian Carpenter: Reminder about multi-homed sites: Text that says, "Given that we have acquired a prefix..." should say, "Given that we have acquired one or more prefixes..." Christian Huitema: Internal network topology should be invisible to outside observer (e.g. your ISP). Christian Huitema: What mobility support? If you move your laptop from Ethernet to wireless, do you lose your TCP connection? Thomas Narten: That's adding an additional mobility requirement, which is out-of-scope. Ralph Droms: Need to clarify whether this is *just* assigning subnet numbers, or other parameters too. Tom Petch: Need management, to keep network running. Therefore, need SNMPv3 support. Therefore, automating SNMPv3 setup is required. Brian Haberman: Zerouter does not preclude manual use of SNMP. Stuart Cheshire: We should clearly outline why we don't want to use bridging. If our eventual Zerouter solution does no more than we can already do with bridging, then there's not a lot of point to it. It needs to have clear benefits over layer-two bridging. Margaret Wasserman: Allocating only subnet numbers is not sufficient to make a working network. James Kempf: What about failure modes? When things go wrong, don't want to get into a state where the user doesn't know what to do to fix it. Thomas Narten: need to think about interactions with host configuration Christian Huitema: Agree with Margaret: Goal needs to be fully (or at least substantially) functioning end-systems, and just allocating subnet numbers is not sufficient for that. Christian Huitema: We should not forget that there are media types other than Ethernet. Bridging doesn't work so well between media types with different MTUs or different link-layer address types. Aidan Williams: Time to revise charter Thomas Narten: Charter needs to be enabling substantially functioning end-systems with no user configuration. Ralph Droms: Agreed: Goal is to automatically configure a "useful" small- or medium-sized network. Ralph Droms: If a router can exist in various network environments, some appropriate for Zerouter and some not, how does it know how it should be operating? Christian Huitema: Agree with Ralph Droms: Router has to know whether to use Zerouter protocols or not, so that it does not harm a configured network. Tom Petch: Goal needs to be products that can be used effectively in small-to-medium businesses - places where technology is frequently not used very effectively today. Thomas Narten asked for room consensus. Many people think Zerouter work is worth pursuing. No one opposed that point of view. [Note: Meeting ended before everyone had signed blue sheet, so numbers may be slightly low.]