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TELECOM Digest Thu, 8 Sep 2005 02:00:00 EDT Volume 24 : Issue 409 Inside This Issue: Editor: Patrick A. Townson GEICO, Google Settle Lawsuit (Eric Auchard) Cell Phones Combined With VOIP (Ben Charny) Pre-teen Cell Phone Adoption (Marcus Didius Falco) Laptops Turn on, Tune In to Seattle Metro's New Wi-Fi (John Stahl) CAS Tone Detection Method (jia) Windows DRM Consultant Needed For 12+ Month Position Atlanta (Bob) Re: Bob Denver as Maynard (Gordon S. Hlavenka) Re: You Can't Foil These Parking Meters (Gordon S. Hlavenka) Re: Sid Ceasar and Phones in Comedy (Al Gillis) Telecom and VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) Digest for the Internet. All contents here are copyrighted by Patrick Townson and the individual writers/correspondents. Articles may be used in other journals or newsgroups, provided the writer's name and the Digest are included in the fair use quote. By using -any name or email address- included herein for -any- reason other than responding to an article herein, you agree to pay a hundred dollars to the recipients of the email. =========================== Addresses herein are not to be added to any mailing list, nor to be sold or given away without explicit written consent. Chain letters, viruses, porn, spam, and miscellaneous junk are definitely unwelcome. We must fight spam for the same reason we fight crime: not because we are naive enough to believe that we will ever stamp it out, but because we do not want the kind of world that results when no one stands against crime. Geoffrey Welsh =========================== See the bottom of this issue for subscription and archive details and the name of our lawyer; other stuff of interest. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Auchard <reuters@telecom-digest.org> Subject: GEICO, Google Settle Lawsuit Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 23:56:43 -0500 By Eric Auchard Google Inc. and auto insurer GEICO have resolved a trademark infringement challenge filed by GEICO against Google over its online advertising practices, the auto insurer said on Wednesday. GEICO, the No. 4 U.S. auto insurer and a unit of investor Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway Inc., said a suit filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia was "resolved to the mutual satisfaction of the parties." The lawsuit, originally filed in May 2004, had sought to hold Google responsible for trademark infringement for displaying advertising paid for by rival insurers when computer users searched for the word "GEICO" on the Google system. The complaint could have effectively derailed a basic way Google sells online advertising, by linking keyword searches to ads. This is the source of virtually all of Google's revenues. Rival Yahoo Inc. relies on a similar keyword technique for roughly half of its advertising revenue. "Terms of the settlement, although not disclosed, would suggest some sort of payment was made, but that a trial has been avoided," Martin Pyykkonen, an analyst with brokerage Hoefer & Arnett. "This mitigates the risk of further trademark lawsuits," he said. He rates Google stock a "buy" and says it can hit $350 over time, a gain of 20 percent from current levels. Late last year, a U.S. judge ruled there was insufficient evidence to bar Google from using the technique. Terms of the settlement are confidential, GEICO said. No further comment on the settlement will be provided, it said. Google spokesman Mike Mayzel confirmed the two companies had resolved the dispute, but also decline to provide details. The resolution of the dispute puts off, at least for now, the threat of a major battle pitting the intellectual property rights of a trademark like GEICO against the free speech rights of Google to create new forms of advertising, Pyykkonen said. GEICO, or Government Employees Insurance Co., is the fourth-largest private passenger auto insurer in the United States, covering more than 6 million policyholders. Google users who search for the word "GEICO" on the main search results page are returned a set of results that include sponsored links alongside the main Web search results. Three lesser rivals are featured next to a link to GEICO currently. Google shares were up 35 cents in after-hours trading at $288.80 following the GEICO announcement. The stock had closed $2.20 higher in regular session trading on Nasdaq at $288.45. Berkshire Hathaway shares were unchanged in after-hours trading from their New York Stock Exchange close at $84,100. Copyright 2005 Reuters Limited. NOTE: For more telecom/internet/networking/computer news from the daily media, check out our feature 'Telecom Digest Extra' each day at http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/more-news.html . Hundreds of new articles daily. ------------------------------ From: Ben Charny <zdnet@telecom-digest.org> Subject: Cell Phones Combined With VOIP Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 23:58:58 -0500 By Ben Charny URL: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1035_22-5759701.html=20 Jayson Jepson pays 29 cents a minute to call London on his cell phone. Wouldn't it be great, the founder of Mint Telecom asks rhetorically, if it were more like 2 cents a minute? Now it is, courtesy of Mint and a growing corporate coterie selling cell phone versions of voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP) software, which is used to transform Internet connections into inexpensive home or office phone lines. Mint began offering a $7-a-month cell phone service two weeks ago. Skype, Vonage, IP Drum and other operators using VoIP software have caused tectonic shifts in the traditional phone-service industry. Now these same interests are dialing into cell phones, primarily because a growing number have high-speed Internet connections rivaling the performance of broadband operators, whether it's over a third-generation cell phone network or based on Wi-Fi wireless connectivity. A speedy connection is very important to VoIP, in which calls travel on the Internet just like e-mails and instant messages. Because VoIP is intended for voice communication, it is relatively unforgiving of Internet connections afflicted by sluggishness or clipped or dropped signals. Consumers, of course, must weigh the cost of VoIP cell phone access against the savings they might derive from standard VoIP. Cell phone subscribers, after all, already pay a monthly fee for cell phone service. So why would they pay a company like Mint $7 a month extra, plus a per-minute fee, to make a call on the same phone? Jepson argues that the savings for customers using VoIP services are significant enough to make it worthwhile to buy cell phone access over VoIP. "You could ask the same question for VoIP in general," he wrote in an e-mail to CNET News.com. "It's $24.95 for an unlimited calling plus $20 to $40 a month for broadband just to save a few cents?" Most cell phone VoIP software comes from start-ups such as IP Drum, which is based in Norway. It's a product that enables cell phones to use Skype, arguably the world's most popular Internet telephony provider. But VoIP giants Skype and Edison, N.J.-based Vonage say they also have ambitions to develop software for cell phone access. "It's an area we're committed to," said Skype spokeswoman Kelly Larabee. On Monday, Santa Barbara, Calif.-based CallWave will reveal a new wrinkle in its lineup of VoIP-related cell phone services, including a unique call screening feature. NOTE: For more telecom/internet/networking/computer news from the daily media, check out our feature 'Telecom Digest Extra' each day at http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/more-news.html . Hundreds of new articles daily. *** FAIR USE NOTICE. This message contains copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. This Internet discussion group is making it available without profit to group members who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information in their efforts to advance the understanding of literary, educational, political, and economic issues, for non-profit research and educational purposes only. I believe that this constitutes a 'fair use' of the copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the U.S. Copyright Law. If you wish to use this copyrighted material for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use,' you must obtain permission from the copyright owner, in this instance, ZDNet, For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 00:02:39 -0400 From: Marcus Didius Falco <falco_marcus_didius@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Pre-Teen Cell Phone Adoption http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20050906/tc_usatoday/cellphonemarketerscallingallpreteens Cell phone marketers calling all preteens By Laura Petrecca, USA TODAY Tue Sep 6, 8:59 AM ET Forget the Barbie Dream House. Today's 9-year-old wants her own cell phone -- and Mattel will be happy to provide one. The toymaker is one of many companies vying to connect with the preteen and younger market through mobile phones, services and accessories. The goal is not just to tap new revenue - it's also to establish brand loyalty early. Some parents welcome the appearance of kid-friendly cell phones, while some critics worry that easy-to-influence preteens will be exposed to a barrage of marketing messages. About 16 million teens and younger kids have cell phones, with the bulk of them older teens, according to the researcher GFK's NOP World Technology. But as the teen market gets saturated, cell providers and other companies are eyeing the younger set. In February 2002, 13% of 12-to-14-year-olds had cell phones. That number jumped to 40% in December 2004, according to NOP. Some 14% of 10-to-11-year-olds now own cell phones. While NOP doesn't have comparison data for that group yet, Vice President Ben Rogers says its ownership is rising. Even kids under 10 are using personal cells to call for rides home. "We're seeing cell phone growth from ages 8 and 9 on," says technology analyst Rob Enderle. Mattel licensed its "My Scene" brand name, which focuses on preteens, to Single Touch Interactive. This month, they'll sell a full-service $79.99 cell phone with prepaid minutes priced at 25 cents each. Next year, Walt Disney launches Disney Mobile service through Sprint. It is designed for families with kids as young as 10. Some companies are aiming even younger. Just in time for the new school year, educational tech company LeapFrog and wireless firm Enfora are launching the $99.99 TicTalk phone for children ages 6 and older. Courtesy Firefly Mobile Inc.Firefly Mobile's phone is geared to kids ages 8 to 12. Firefly Mobile has a simple $99.99 phone with five "speed-dial" buttons for "mobile kids." Many parents are buying in. Gaithersburg, Md., mom Phyllis Corrao just got her 10-year-old son, Daniel Mangle, a full-service Nextel phone so she can stay in touch when he's at school. Eric Webber of Austin says he's about to cave in and buy his 11-year-old son, Jake, one. "I have the cell phone debate every day," says Webber, adding that his son has worn him down. When parents put phones in kids' hands, they're likely creating a lifelong cell phone customer, say experts. That gives both the service providers -- such as Sprint or Verizon -- as well as brands with names on the handsets -- such as Mattel's "My Scene" -- access to new customers and sets the stage for future sales. "Once you give it to them, you can't take it away," Rogers says. He adds that as kids get older and are exposed to more advanced phones, "Parents are going to experience a lot of pressure to upgrade." He says the simpler phones, such as the Firefly, are seeding the way for future growth. "There is a role for those limited phones to get people in young and then drive intake of fully functional phones at a younger age," Rogers says. In addition to paying for upgraded phones, parents and kids are also buying ring tones, cell phone shells and hip carrying cases. Firefly's Web site, for instance, promotes a $12.99 wristlet purse to carry the phone, as well as colorful "bubble gum" and "limeade" exchangeable outer shells for the phone at $12.99 each. That might be just the start. While Disney hasn't disclosed all its plans, some telecom analysts already are speculating about the potential it has to market an array of products through Disney Mobile. Enderle says Disney could sell ring tones that promote its movie characters or include discount coupons to its theme parks with the monthly cell phone bill. That vast marketing potential has some children's advocates worried about exploitation. "It's open season on kids," says Gary Ruskin, executive director of advocacy group Commercial Alert. Ruskin rattles off a range of concerns, from children being exposed to marketing messages on the phone itself (such as Mattel's "My Scene" design) to the potential for kids to be pressured to buy ring tones and accessories. Ruskin says some companies will harness the nag factor -- when a kid harasses a parent for so long, the parent gives in -- to sell their goods. Marketers defend their phone products. Mattel says: "We believe it is ultimately the choice of the parent to decide when his or her child is ready for a cell phone. Research shows that kids are going wireless, and we wanted to provide girls with a communication device that is not only functional and fashionable but that also encourages responsible cell phone use." It appears that more parents are on Mattel's side. Webber, who works in the ad industry, says he sees how marketers can take advantage of kids. His son is already turning ad messages he's heard into arguments for a phone. "He's playing the safety and security card on me, saying, 'Wouldn't you feel safer if I had it?' " Webber says. At this point, Webber is just about sold. Both he and Corrao agree that cell phones can teach their kids about responsibility. Corrao's son, Daniel, does chores to earn the talk time, and Webber says he'll do the same with Jake. Corrao says giving Daniel a phone has paid off in other ways: "He's called to say he loves me." Copyright 2005 USA TODAY, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. NOTE: For more telecom/internet/networking/computer news from the daily media, check out our feature 'Telecom Digest Extra' each day at http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/more-news.html . Hundreds of new articles daily. Read USA Today on line here each day at: http://telecom-digest.org/td-extra/othernews.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 18:37:54 -0400 From: John Stahl <aljon@stny.rr.com> Subject: Laptops Turn On, Tune In to Seattle Metro's New Wi-Fi Starting today, Seattle bus routes are offering Wi-Fi for FREE on some of their lines. Not only in this period of exorbitant gasoline prices can you "leave the driving to us" (one bus lines logo), but you can doubly save on the commutation. With FREE Wi-Fi service (forget Blackberry's and Verizon costly Broadband services) you can get on the Internet and "work" while you relax on your way to work. I wish more cities would get gutsy and fight the local Teleco incumbent (it seems that they and the cable provider think they "own" connection to the Internet) to put FREE Wi-FI every where (especially on busses with the high cost of fuel) they want. I haven't heard if Philly and other cities have given up their quest and fight to put in these systems. The article: Laptops turn on, tune in to Metro's new Wi-Fi 29 buses on two routes offering wireless Net access By JANE HADLEY SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER (9/7/05) Beginning today, some riders on two Metro bus routes will be able to turn on and tune in their laptops to the Internet using Wi-Fi wireless connections in a five-month trial that could expand to other routes, if successful. By mid-October, all 29 buses that run on .... <clip for brevity> URL of article: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/239688_buswifi07.html Wish my area in NY had this available. John Stahl Data/Telecom Consultant Aljon Enterprises ------------------------------ From: jia <jia.qinghua@gmail.com> Subject: CAS Tone Detection Method Date: 7 Sep 2005 18:47:05 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Hi here, If I use detection method of DTMF to do the CAS(CPE Alerting Signal), is it OK? I believe CAS Tone is just a special DTMF Tone with strict requirement. ------------------------------ Reply-To: <bob@gbtechinc.com> From: Bob <bob@gbtechinc.com> Subject: Windows DRM Consultant Needed For 12 Month Position in Atlanta Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:31:04 -0700 Organization: Gbtech Dear Friends, We are in the process of identifying suitable candidates for the below described position. If you are best fit for this position, please respond ASAP by emailing the below requested details to Bob@gbtechinc.com. 1) updated resume as a word document 2) expected all inclusive hourly rate 3) availability 4) work/visa status 5) and contact details. Job Details: Job Title: Windows DRM Consultant Duration: 12+ months Location: Atlanta, GA. Job description: We are looking for an experienced Senior Windows Software Engineer to join us for a 12+ month engagement located in Atlanta, GA. You will be a key member of a dynamic team developing multimedia server and client applications on the Windows platform. You will be a part of all aspects of the software development lifecycle, from design and concept, to testing and maintenance. We are looking for someone experience with Windows Digital Rights Management (DRM). Responsibilities will include: Manage multiple and simultaneous development projects. Create functional and design specifications for new product features. Implement new product features. Diagnose and fix bugs in new and existing code. Act as a technical resource for the Windows platform. Requirements/Prerequisites: Five years experience developing on the Windows platform. Knowledge of object-oriented design principles, including design patterns. Extensive knowledge of C and C++ programming. Extensive knowledge of the Win32 API. Extensive experience with multi-threaded software. Strong analytical and communications skills. Please send resumes ASAP, for an immediate interview. Regards, Bob Harris Sr.Technical Recruiter Global Technologies Inc www.GBTechinc.com Bob@gbtechinc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 22:04:34 -0500 From: Gordon S. Hlavenka <nospam@crashelex.com> Reply-To: nospam@crashelex.com Organization: Crash Electronics Subject: Re: Bob Denver as Maynard hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com wrote: > His most famous role that everyone talks about was as Gilligan, in > Gilligan's Island. But I remember him more from his prior role as a > beatnik, Maynard G Krebs, in "Dobie Gillis". I liked the way Maynard would always recoil in horror whenever he heard the word "work"... Gordon S. Hlavenka http://www.crashelectronics.com If your teacher tells you to Question Authority Should you do it? ------------------------------ From: Gordon S. Hlavenka <nospam@crashelex.com> Reply-To: nospam@crashelex.com Organization: Crash Electronics Subject: Re: You Can't Foil These Parking Meters/Technology Makes it Easier Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 03:21:00 GMT Fred Atkinson wrote: > When we returned to the vehicle, there was a parking ticket on it. > When I looked at the chalk time versus the time the ticket was issued, > the difference of the times was only thirty-eight minutes. Here's a parking meter story from ten or fifteen years ago that I know PAT will enjoy, because it involves one of his favorite topics: Chicago government. The wife and I drove downtown on a Sunday to visit the Field Museum. We were pleasantly surprised when we got there to find ample parking curbside. There were meters, but the meters were placarded "Monday through Saturday, 6am to 10pm" so the parking was even free! We enjoyed our visit to the museum, and when we returned to our car we found we had been ticketed for parking at an expired meter! Fifty bucks! We took a photo of the meter's placard (with the meter number showing). Then we filed an appeal; I forget exactly how it worked but basically you explain in writing why you shouldn't have gotten the ticket and mail it to a special address. Anyway we explained about the "Monday through Saturday" thing, enclosed the photo, and returned to our regularly scheduled lives. Then we got the response. Denied! Reason for denial: "Insufficient evidence" -- what do they want, we should rip up the meter and UPS it to them with a calendar??? "Fortunately" there is a process in place to appeal the appeal; all we had to do was fill out another form and send it in along with a non-refundable $400 check for court costs. Really! So we solved the problem the easy way. We paid the fifty bucks, and we haven't been to the Field Museum since. Gordon S. Hlavenka http://www.crashelectronics.com If your teacher tells you to Question Authority Should you do it? [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: And I have not been back to Chicago since 2001, (actually not since 1999, but I returned there very briefly in 2001 for a couple months) and do not see any reason to return anytime soon. The whole place is rotten to the core with dirty tricks as you experienced. PAT] ------------------------------ From: Al Gillis <alg@aracnet.com> Subject: Re: Sid Ceasar and Phones in Comedy Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:31:15 -0700 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote in message news:telecom24.393.10@telecom-digest.org... > My local PBS showed clips from old shows. The telephone figured in > some of them. > In one clip, the group got into an argument over the names of the > Seven Dwarfs from Snow White. One man makes a few phone calls to ask > around. He dialed 5 or 6 digits, but spun the dial very quickly, not > letting it properly return. The man then made another call, this time > dialing only three digits. "Long Distance? Get me Walt Disney in > Hollywood!". The man repeatedly emphasizes he's spending $3 on long > distance to find out the info ($3 was maybe $30-$40 today). He gets > Walt Disney on the phone (who didn't know the answer), and mentioned > again he was calling long distance for $3. > The clip was also interesting for the social world it shown. The gang > was headed out for the evening when they got into this argument. They > were hollering at each other, and it reminded me of adults of that > day, which seemed to be hollering at lot more than they do today > (maybe it was only my world). Also, they were all dressed up very > nicely -- men in suits, women in nice dresses. Today people go out to > dinner or a movie in beach clothes; we forget in those days people put > on a necktie or dress quite often when they left the house. > Another clip was a monologue about a night on the town. It starts off > with him calling his girlfriend for a date, and he made exagerated > sounds of dialing, ringing, etc. > Those old shows were done live. When something fouled up -- which > happened often (forgotten lines, prop would fall down -- the actors > had to be quick and improvise to keep the sketch moving. By today's > standards the humor could be a little bland and the jokes very old. > But the shows have a kind of vitality often not seen today. The > comedy groups were a tight-knit team. They also could be funny > without resorting to sex or even politics. > [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: One of my favorite telephone gags is > when the person _merely pretends_ to call someone, but actually has > his finger holding the hook down while he makes a big production of > dialing then speaking to whomever (only supposedly), and then mid-way > through the supposed conversation with the supposed person, the phone > _actually rings_ with a real call coming in, and of course the > pretender is quite embarassed at being caught in this obvious lie. I > first saw this routine in an old Jack Benny show from the 1930's, then > I saw it again in an "I Love Lucy" show. The third time I saw it was > when John Ritter (in his role as Jack Tripper, on "Three's Company") > got caught in that lie on one of the "Three's Company" shows. Viewers > will recall that poor Jack was always getting in some hassle or > another on that show, and his two female roomates would always have to > rescue him. > The odd part was that on the show where Jack got caught 'with his > finger on the hook while making a call' (because the phone rang), when > it happened, the audience roared with laughter, poor Jack looked very > humiliated as always, but on the 'outakes' (not used in the show but > available on the video of 'outakes' several years later) who should > walk on the set at that moment but Lucille Ball -- not normally on the > show except two or three times as a special guest) and she sternly > said "John, you stole one of my better laughs!" and Ritter replied, > "but my writers got it from the same guy you did, Jack Benny!". Miss > Ball gave him a dirty look and stalked off the stage. The audience > loved it; because the applause for Lucille Ball and the laughter on > account of the joke went on for so long the producers had to cut it > out of the tape entirely. You are correct, Lisa, they could tell jokes > and have funny situations in a clean way on television in years gone > past. PAT] Another bit of early TV crazyness happened with Jackie Gleason and Art Carney. Ralph Cramden (Jackie) had just gotten a new telephone installed in his apartment. Jackie and Alice were both quite proud of this new addition to their cold water, walk up flat. Anyway, Ed Norton (Art) came to the Cramden apartment that evening and asked to use the telephone. Jackie told his pal, "Sure -- go ahead. But remember this costs me money for every call". (Jackie had obviously ordered a measured line). So Ed/Art dials a number, listens for a while and then hangs up. Then he raises his arm and adjusts the time on his wristwatch. Jackie/Ralph goes nuts! He berates his pal for wasting money on a phone call just to find out what time it was! Norton, in his usual response to Ralph's outbursts, grabs his hat off his head and dashes out the door! Maybe I spend to much time in the past, but I miss that old stuff ... no vulgar language, no profanity, no sexual overtones, just funny, funny stuff! Probably so funny as it mirrored us or our friends so closely! Thanks, Pat, for bringing this memory to the surface! Al [TELECOM Digest Editor's Note: You are quite welcome. Did you ever see any of 'The Honeymooners, Color Episodes' (as they were called), a few years following the demise of the original 'Honeymooners' series? Both Jackie Gleason and Art Carney were in it, but different actresses played their wives. For whatever reason, TVLand does not run that series and they (TVLand) only occassionally mentions the original Honeymooners series these days. Do you remember when Jackie Gleason (actually, for real) broke his leg near the end of one of the shows as part of a gag he was doing? Normally, Gleason came out at the end of every show to say goodnight to the audience, but as the final curtain went down, we see him slip and fall; people begin to realize that this time it was _not_ a joke, and instead of Gleason coming out to crack his final joke and say goodnight, someone else came out to do it. Do you also recall how Honeymooners was _originally_ just a fifteen minute segment on Jackie Gleason? In addition to Honeymooners, he had a routine called 'the Poor Soul' and a couple others each week. Eventually though, Honeymooners began getting 30 minutes of the show each week, then finally an hour, except for the June Taylor Dancers who were always the first act. PAT] ------------------------------ TELECOM Digest is an electronic journal devoted mostly to telecomm- unications topics. It is circulated anywhere there is email, in addition to various telecom forums on a variety of networks such as Compuserve and America On Line, Yahoo Groups, and other forums. It is also gatewayed to Usenet where it appears as the moderated newsgroup 'comp.dcom.telecom'. TELECOM Digest is a not-for-profit, mostly non-commercial educational service offered to the Internet by Patrick Townson. All the contents of the Digest are compilation-copyrighted. You may reprint articles in some other media on an occasional basis, but please attribute my work and that of the original author. Contact information: Patrick Townson/TELECOM Digest Post Office Box 50 Independence, KS 67301 Phone: 620-402-0134 Fax 1: 775-255-9970 Fax 2: 530-309-7234 Fax 3: 208-692-5145 Email: editor@telecom-digest.org Subscribe: telecom-subscribe@telecom-digest.org Unsubscribe:telecom-unsubscribe@telecom-digest.org This Digest is the oldest continuing e-journal about telecomm- unications on the Internet, having been founded in August, 1981 and published continuously since then. Our archives are available for your review/research. We believe we are the oldest e-zine/mailing list on the internet in any category! 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Any organizations listed are for identification purposes only and messages should not be considered any official expression by the organization. End of TELECOM Digest V24 #409 ****************************** | |